Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
You shut up about Ennis - this ain't (all) his fault
welliwont:
Here is a post courtesy of Diane, (hope you don't mind that I cropped it and moved it over here Diane... ;). I thought it might be fine grist for the mill y'all got goin' here...
--- Quote from: dly64 on July 03, 2006, 04:53:27 pm ---
Ossana: .... But I do think that Ennis knows that people probably know that he’s homosexual...
http://www.advocate.com/currentstory1_w.asp?id=25277&page=
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ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 03, 2006, 08:36:21 pm ---But I don't think Jack is the only man he's ever found attractive. I think he has long realized that he's attracted to men. That's what makes his upbringing so damaging, what with his bigoted dad and the spectre of Earl sending the message that he literally needs to fear for his life if he ever gives any sign of it. That's one reason, if not the only one, that he's so shy and awkward and messed up. And his internalized homophobia MORE convincing, to me, than it would if he never thought his dad's bigotry had anything to do with him.
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I agree completely with this. And I believe that a strong conclusion can be drawn from what you said here. It's the image of Earl and the message from his father that messed him up so much. It's because of just how strong those two messages were in his life that I believe that he could never make the connection that he was one of those "queers." He fought making that connection with every fiber of his being. Yet, he loved Jack and had sex with him. Thus, his confusion, his being messed up, was exacerbated to the point that every fiber of his being just couldn’t stand it no more.
--- Quote ---But it still doesn't fit with what I see of Ennis' behavior and his background.
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It's funny -- to me, this is all I see ... a complete fit with his behavior and background.
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: dly64 on July 03, 2006, 08:38:32 pm ---... of course we’ll have to see what Ruthless says …
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And as you must know by now, the wait won't be long.
I really hope people don’t mind me jumping in and offering my two cents on just about every post, but I really enjoy the back-and-forth -- especially with people who really have an opinion and aren't afraid to argue it.
--- Quote ---I reconcile this by saying that the “face to face” issue is not to be taken literally, but figuratively. I have used this argument before and I can’t say that it has been a popular view. However, I think it fits. It is evident that Ennis can physically look at Jack face to face. He can hold him in his arms. He can kiss him tenderly. What Ennis cannot face, however, is the realization that it is a man he loves.
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I think this is a great way of putting it!
I hope this doesn’t sound haughty, but I consider myself to be one of the lucky few -- one of the lucky few who saw the film before reading the short story. All I had heard of Brokeback Mountain was that it was a gay cowboy love story. I fully expected to see two cowboys fall in love, shack up, have a squabble or two -- but overcome them -- and have a big problem with some bad dude in town during the last 1/2 hour, then they would overcome that problem and the whole town would welcome them and support them. Everyone lives happily ever after. When the screen faded to black and I saw the words "Directed by Ang Lee," I was so numb I couldn't move. I couldn't speak. I had no idea what the hell I had just witnessed -- what I had just been a part of. To this day I still cannot adequately describe what this film has done to me.
So, I watched it again. And again... and again. I'm right around 140 or 150 viewings right now.
I didn’t read the short story until somewhere around maybe 75 or 80 viewings. I'm glad I didn't. Sometimes the published story is better than the film and the film just gives a person images to connect with what one reads in the better short story. Sometimes, it’s the other way around. I look at Brokeback Mountain as the latter. Proulx did a fine job, no doubt. But the film so far surpasses the very thin story and gives such an enormous amount of weight to it, that while I can read the short story and put the film into it, I cannot watch the film and put the short story into the film. There are a few instances where something in the short story has made me look at motivations in the film a little differently, but there are so many times that the film gives a completely different spin that I think it's just best to put the book aside and go with what Lee gave us. (In a way, it's like Trekkers who try to reconcile Star Trek technology with our modern understanding of physics. Not a really good fit.)
--- Quote ---When Jack says, “All this time and you ain’t find nobody else to marry?” … it illustrates Jack’s resignation. Despite this, however, I still contend that Jack loved Ennis as much as he always had … that had not diminished. Even though Jack was seeking sexual fulfillment elsewhere (Mexico, Randall), he still had the emotional commitment to Ennis (one that he, at times, wished he could “quit”)."
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I agree complexly with this. I also take this line as a foreshadowing of the closet scene. Here, Jack is subtextually saying "All this time and you haven’t figured yourself out yet?" Then Ennis goes to the closet. He FINDS the shirts. "All this time and you haven’t found out the truth about yourself and our relationship? Well, here's these two shirts to help you." I can almost hear Jack saying, "You dumbass mule."
--- Quote ---Even if Jack would have lived with Randall, he would have still gone on his “fishing trips” with Ennis.
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I cannot disagree with this more strongly. After Jack saw, vis-à-vis Ennis' breakdown, the toll that their relationship and Ennis' inability to cope with it had taken on Ennis, it would have been utterly cruel of Jack to continue their relationship. It is not love to see the person you love in utter despair and turmoil and then to say "Oh, well, at least I can get a couple of high-altitude fucks out of the guy every year." I know that you didn’t mean to say anything like that. But, it is precisely because Jack loved Ennis so much that Jack had to let Ennis go.
Because Ennis sent the final postcard, I believe that Jack had not yet gotten around to closing things up with Ennis, and I’m not sure how he would have done it. But I am sure of one thing. Jack would have had to have gotten a final, definite answer from Ennis one way or the other. And if Ennis' answer was the same as always, Jack would have had to have let him go. He loved him that much.
Jack said he wished he knew how to quit Ennis. In the most poignant irony of the entire film, Ennis showed him how.
(Please note that "quit" does NOT mean "stop loving." It means stopping the pain. This is love and that was Jack.)
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: dly64 on July 03, 2006, 09:41:35 pm --- … so let me give a few different examples, because I think this does fit in to what we know about Ennis …
A woman lives in the burbs, ...
Now let’s look at Ennis … he was taught homosexuality was a “bad thing”. ...
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I agree 100%. Beautiful example.
--- Quote ---If Jack wouldn’t have come into his life, I am not convinced he would have ever had a homosexual affair, IMO.
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And IMHO too. I believe that Ennis needed Jack to take the lead. And as their relationship developed on the mountain, pre-FNIT, Ennis was perkily going along with Jack's lead. But without someone to grab Ennis' hand and put it "where the moon don’t shine," I believe Ennis would never have made a first move. Ever.
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 04, 2006, 12:39:24 am ---I see what you're saying, and I agree that's a better analogy. It's true that Ennis doesn't see himself as queer in terms of all the stereotypes he might attach to that label -- just as the woman you describe doesn't see herself as a "drug addict" per se. Would the woman openly take her Xanax in front of god and everyone with no hesitation because she doesn't see herself as fitting the drug addict profile? Or would she be worried that people in town and people on the pavement would "know" that she's taking too many? If it's the latter, then she's a pretty good comparison to Ennis ... neither might use the label they despise to describe their own behavior, yet at some level they realize their behavior is not "normal."
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I think this is the entire key point. Very well stated (summed up).
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