Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
You shut up about Ennis - this ain't (all) his fault
YaadPyar:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on July 03, 2006, 07:40:26 am ---
And I think tied up in that, too, would be a loyalty to Jack and his memory that would never be broken. I have trouble imagining Ennis ever being attracted to another man again because of all that. It just doesn't seem true to his character.
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I agree completely. And it's not so unusual or extraordinary to assume this about Ennis. I know straight folks who find their one true love, and when that person is gone, for whatever reason, they remain completely true to the memory and love that still lives in them for their beloved.
They don't want to date or re-marry or couple with another in the way they did with their true love. The lack of attraction or interest in another partner isn't in any way about sexual orientation. Their fidelity to that one person doesn't make them any more or less straight, and Ennis's committment to Jack as his one true love doesn't make him any less gay. We are all capable of loving many different people in many different ways.
YaadPyar:
--- Quote from: JakeTwist on July 02, 2006, 02:20:23 pm ---
Ennis knows that being queer is having sex with men + Ennis has sex with Jack ≠ Ennis does not think of himself as queer.
How can he not? He is sane and rational, is he not? And he did ask Jack at the riverside "Do you ever get the feeling that people know?" I realize that sometimes people can make excuses for their behaviour to the point of believing that it is something other than what it is, (I mean self-delusional) but when it comes to something as concrete as having sex with a man over and over and over for half of one's life, this ain't no little thing that's happenin here.
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Just one more thought...there are lots of us who have had a variety of sexual experiences, and not found ourselves so easily defined by them. The equation of sex with a person of the same sex = gay isn't always such an easy one. A lot of people are attracted to/fall in love with an individual, not a gender or sexual orientation. Makes me think of Anne Heche, who had a somewhat notorious love affair with Ellen Degeneres, and is now married to a man with whom she has a child. Which identity is more true/real? I'm guessing both equally.
Is she a straight woman who had a lesbian affair? Is she a lesbian who fell in love with a man? Is she a lesbian who's playing straight? Does it matter...???
Interesting discussion.
fernly:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on July 03, 2006, 07:40:26 am ---I'd just like to take my dead horse beater out once again and chime in that I agree that while Ennis clearly is gay, he does not see himself as gay. I think that when he says, "Do you ever see someone looking at you and wonder if he knows?..." what he's talking about "knowing" about is not being a homosexual, but being a man who has sex with another man. Yes, those two things are one and the same to all of us. But not to him. And as it's been mentioned before, Diana Ossana believes that most likely, after Jack's death, Ennis would likely become even more homophobic and self-loathing. Tied up in his grief and guilt over Jack's death and the fact that it could have been avoided if he had done some things differently is his engrained shame, still, that he was in love and had sex regularly with another man. And I think tied up in that, too, would be a loyalty to Jack and his memory that would never be broken. I have trouble imagining Ennis ever being attracted to another man again because of all that. It just doesn't seem true to his character.
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Barb, to comment on just a couple of your points (and I agree with all of 'em) - I assume it wasn't by accident that you said "tied up", twice, cause how else could Ennis contain all those absolute contradictions and intense emotions other than by tying himself up in knots (and Jack called him on it before they even went up the mountain). Heath even moved, at almost every point in the film, as if he were tied up like a hobbled horse (those heart-breaking, shuffling steps).
And I, too, just can't see Ennis being with anyone else. The "bitter longing" Annie noticed in the expression of that aging ranch hand as he watched young cowboys one night in a bar, I believe that longing on Ennis' face in later years would be not for the men he saw before him, but for the one man they were shadows of.
YaadPyar:
--- Quote from: fernly on July 03, 2006, 09:00:32 am ---
And I, too, just can't see Ennis being with anyone else. The "bitter longing" Annie noticed in the expression of that aging ranch hand as he watched young cowboys one night in a bar, I believe that longing on Ennis' face in later years would be not for the men he saw before him, but for the one man they were shadows of.
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So beautifully put...
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: YaadPyar on July 03, 2006, 09:04:08 am ---So beautifully put...
--- End quote ---
Mmmmmm... I agree wholeheartedly. Yes, if Ennis ever looked twice at another man, it would only be to compare him, and unfavorably in every case, to Jack.
And it's funny you mention my use of "tied up," Lynn. Do you know I was starting to write "bound up" and something told me "tied" worked better. Really, "bound" does in and of itself, but I wonder if I was subconsciously thinking of "...unless you wanna sit around tyin' knots all day." Ah - another addition to "You know you're thinking about the boys too much/often when..."
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