Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
"I figured you were sore from that punch"
dly64:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 06, 2006, 12:01:22 pm ---Just to clarify, Diane, when I say Jack is trying to "fix" something, I think I mean exactly what I think you're saying -- he realizes they love each other, the next step is to have a life together -- i.e., Jack wants to "fix" the problem of them being apart, rather than "stand" the situation, as Ennis believes they must do.
--- End quote ---
Now that you are clarifying ... yes, I see it the same way.
--- Quote ---Do you think the idea of living together came before Ennis made his "I'm stuck" comment? But they'd been reunited only, I don't know, maybe an hour or two by then. Or do you think Jack got the idea as he was redlining it up to Wyoming? My feeling is that, while it may have crossed Jack's mind before then, he couldn't have really thinking about it seriously before the reunion, because he couldn't have been sure about how Ennis would respond when he got there.
--- End quote ---
I have changed my mind on this in the last couple of minutes. I think it was after Ennis says "I'm stuck ...." ... especially since Jack says right before that, "What are we gonna do now?" Had he been thinking about the "sweet life", he would have said it at that time. When Jack does say it, however .... OMG! It just breaks my heart! Jack says it with such sincerity and vulnerability. Then Ennis’ response ... "I told you it ain't gonna be that way." Just one in a series of heartbreaks (for both).
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 06, 2006, 02:07:13 am ---Amanda, judging from the context I'm assuming the "not noticing how upset Jack is" in your last sentence is meant to read "NOW noticing"?
--- End quote ---
Oops. Yup, thanks for catching that. It was definitely a typo (and one that changed what I meant to say quite significantly). :o
So, I fixed it in the original post.
:)
Anyway, I think the urge to fix and to stand are both manifestations of love for the respective characters. I think Jack's wanting to live with Ennis is of course... first and foremost about love... which would simultaneously fix Ennis's "I'm stuck" idea. I think Ennis believes that he's "standing" his "miserable fucking life" and arranging the clandestine meetings in the mountains (which are ultimately not entirely satisfying for either him or Jack... and are arrangements that both he and Jack have to "stand") all for his love of Jack. He feels like he's arranged his whole life (quit jobs, remained an outsider in his town, etc., etc... leading to the "It's because of you Jack that I'm like this." comment) in order to facilitate his relationship with Jack and he's kept Jack on the "short leash" with the secret meetings because he probably believes that he's protecting Jack (and himself) from homophobic violence and attitudes. And, of course the underlying sense of needing to protect Jack is also a manifestation of love (even if facilitating this idea of protection means that he has to "stand" being away from Jack for long stretches).
It's interesting that at various points in the movie each character demonstrates a willingness to both fix and stand. The more I think about this the more complex it seems... but it's probably a topic for another thread...
::) :-\ :-X
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: atz75 on July 06, 2006, 08:47:25 pm ---he's kept Jack on the "short leash" with the secret meetings because he probably believes that he's protecting Jack (and himself) from homophobic violence and attitudes. And, of course the underlying sense of needing to protect Jack is also a manifestation of love (even if facilitating this idea of protection means that he has to "stand" being away from Jack for long stretches).
--- End quote ---
You know, it just occurred to me -- I don't know why it didn't before; maybe you all got this long ago -- that although Jack is usually the comforter, Ennis is usually the protector. He looks up with concern at Jack riding the mountain under a storm cloud, he orders soup, he shoots an elk, he worries about Earl's fate befalling them (and possibly moreso Jack, judging from the ominous symbols in the dead sheep/naked laundry scene), he regrets that in the end he wasn't there to save Jack.
All that suggests to me that neither the punch nor his Mexico threat are deliberate and/or sincere.
Amber:
--- Quote from: opinionista on June 29, 2006, 07:01:46 pm ---From that experience, I have come to the conclusion that Ennis needed to be mad at Jack, and make Jack somehow hate him, to be able to let go. He needed to ease the pain, so he punches Jack in the face and hard. The split hits harder on Ennis because he was a pessimist. He probably couldn't think of way of seeing Jack again. He thought he was losing him forever. We all saw how bad the split hurts him. When Ennis sees Jack driving away, he gets cramps, drops on his knees and punches the wall very hard to try to ease that horrible pain he was feeling.
--- End quote ---
I apologize I didn't make through the rest of the threads before this one jumped out at me.
This is *exactly* what I thought from the very first time I saw the movie. I even said to my husband "Just look at how hurt he is" during their wrestling match/punch. I understand what you are saying here. He's devestated that he's being torn away before he'd had a chance to prepare himself for it and he doesn't know how to express what he's feeling so confusion comes out as a punch.
I wonder how Ennis would have reacted if he had the chance to mentally prepare himself - I bet it would have made it even harder on him.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 06, 2006, 11:21:10 pm ---All that suggests to me that neither the punch nor his Mexico threat are deliberate and/or sincere.
--- End quote ---
Heya Bud,
Could you explain what you mean a bit more here?
I agree that I definitely don't think the punch was deliberate (I certainly hope not) and I think we all hope and believe that his threats at the end were completely empty and insincere. This might feel like a very different movie if we thought for a second that Ennis had even the slightest urge to kill Jack... and for that matter it would feel very different if that punch felt like "domestic violence" in the most classic sense of the phrase... which somehow it really doesn't (an aspect of the film that still puzzles and amazes me).
:-\
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