The World Beyond BetterMost > Women Today
Female Chauvinist Pigs?
milomorris:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on November 20, 2008, 02:28:43 am ---Just another form of women cooperating with men's oppressive standards, as much as the housewives of the '50s or the burkha wearers of today?
--- End quote ---
I don't know if its about men's oppressive standards. Could it be that the housewives of the 50s enjoyed their status, and found some comfort or even achievement in it?
And maybe those Muslim women wear their burkhas because they are true believers in their faith, and think they should cover themselves in public. I live in a very mixed neighborhood that has an Islamic studies center, a Yeshiva, and a Catholic seminary. The Muslims walk around in their burkhas, the Jewish guys walk around in the same suit and hat, and the seminarians can sometimes be seen in the local convenience stores in their robes. Nobody loks unhappy to me. Also I work in a predominantly black neighborhood with several Masjids within a 1-mile radius. Those women seem plenty happy to wear their burkhas to me.
I don't know any of these people personally, so maybe I'm missing some of this oppression.
Milo
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: milo morris on November 20, 2008, 09:16:17 am ---I don't know if its about men's oppressive standards. Could it be that the housewives of the 50s enjoyed their status, and found some comfort or even achievement in it?
--- End quote ---
Of course. And no one is saying that women can't act like they did back in the 50's. Unfortunately for them, it's rare that the rest of society will still allow that - few jobs offer the salary for men to keep their wives at home as housewives. Divorce no longer has the stigma that it once had, so while women may desire to be kept by their husbands, there are few real opportunities for them to do so. And it's no longer seen as something a woman should do seeing as quite a few women who do not have adequate job skills in the working world instantly become impoverished if they are kept and their husband decides to divorce them.
Which based on modern stats will be 50% of the time.
--- Quote ---And maybe those Muslim women wear their burkhas because they are true believers in their faith, and think they should cover themselves in public. I live in a very mixed neighborhood that has an Islamic studies center, a Yeshiva, and a Catholic seminary. The Muslims walk around in their burkhas, the Jewish guys walk around in the same suit and hat, and the seminarians can sometimes be seen in the local convenience stores in their robes. Nobody loks unhappy to me. Also I work in a predominantly black neighborhood with several Masjids within a 1-mile radius. Those women seem plenty happy to wear their burkhas to me.
I don't know any of these people personally, so maybe I'm missing some of this oppression.
Milo
--- End quote ---
It could be that you are. People who have been oppressed for so long sometimes no longer notice that they are being oppressed. None of the distinguishing clothing that men wear in your example are to hide their sinful tempting bodies from the opposite sex. The women's clothing are. Thus the bourka isn't some sort of sign of respect, it's a sign women are too sinful to be allowed to expose their bodies.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: milo morris on November 20, 2008, 01:59:13 am ---delalluvia,
You're post only disagreed with what I have posted in a way that highlights the problems. I never suggested a return to the past social structures or solutions to these issues. What I am suggesting, unless I was unclear, is a new approach to all of this.
In the light of female emancipation, there has to be a better way for both men and women to view sexuality. Letting girls go wild is not a solution. Saying that there's nothing to be done, so we gotta live with it is not a solution. Blaming males for these problems is not a solution.
We have to be smarter and more creative than that if were going to fix things.
Milo
--- End quote ---
Well you're preaching to the choir, Milo. You need to be speaking to teenaged boys and tell them that nudie pics/vids/games of women and their naked bodies is something they shouldn't want to see, admire and desire. Good luck with that.
To diminish the supply, you have to fight the demand.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on November 20, 2008, 02:28:43 am ---Men are going to sexualize them no matter what, so what the hell, they might as well drunkenly flash their tits and make out with their roommates in order to get featured on a video that gets sold on late-night TV, allowing the male buyers across the country to jack off, the filmmaker to get rich, and themselves to be awarded with a free T-shirt?
Is that women just going about their lives while men sexualize them, or is it women playing along with the sexualization and getting exploited in the process? Just another form of women cooperating with men's oppressive standards, as much as the housewives of the '50s or the burkha wearers of today?
Well, this would be unusual, but a good father would impart some sensibility about sexual behavior to his son(s).
--- End quote ---
That's what I just said. Fathers already do that. They do that by putting condoms in their son's hands. They don't tell them to wait for marriage or not to pursue their desires. They simply say, "Here, fuck responsibilty." That doesn't help change any young man's attitudes toward women as people.
--- Quote ---Meanwhile, what sons would flash their usually covered body parts and make out with their roommates simply for the sake of being on a video meant to titillate women?
--- End quote ---
Don't young gay men do this?
As for straight men, if women thought of sex as often as men did, and women were known for sexualizing men's bodies, who knows what straight men might do?
--- Quote ---Or turn it around -- how many men don't usually wear loose, comfortable clothes -- with the exception of neckties and sometimes suit jackets on hot days -- while their female counterparts wear skin-tight pants that expose their stomachs and butt cracks, stumbling along in crippling stiletto heels and freezing in tank tops and camisoles and bare legs when it's 30 degrees?
--- End quote ---
Don't young men wear only shorts during hot summer days?
--- Quote ---A close friend of mine had parents so strict they used to follow her in their car with the headlights off when she went out at night. She wound up pregnant at 14. She got an abortion with her boyfriend's mother posing as her mom -- her own parents, extreme Catholics, never knew.
Ironically, birth control was readily available, even to teenagers. It's just that she was young and stupid, and wasn't on any yet.
--- End quote ---
Exactly. That's what the education part is about. Her parents apparently kept her in the dark.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: milo morris on November 20, 2008, 08:27:42 am ---
BTW, what does it mean that there are no illegitimate children, only illegitimate parents? The dictionary certain says otherwise.
Milo
--- End quote ---
Sure it does. And who came up with the concept that children should get categorized into who is acceptable by society (legitimate) and who is not (illegitimate)t? Yep, a patriarchal society that didn't want to give hard won resources to children born out of wedlock - this was to reinforce the shame culture that kept women only sexually accessible to their menfolk and women who weren't sexually controlled without the power or social status to demand resources from unmarried lovers.
It's a terrible expression and label to pin on children who had no say in the matter that should be done away with. Hence my statement.
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