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Women and Marriage
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on December 11, 2008, 03:52:00 pm ---The thing I hate the most is when even the wife's first name gets left out. As in, "Mr. and Mrs. John Doe" or even just "Mrs. John Doe." Oh, that's horrible.
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I completely agree with this sentiment Bud.
One thing I find fascinating is a generational difference in attitude about this particular topic. I find that sometimes much, much older women (of my grandmother's era 80 and 90 year olds, etc.) they seem to really like the old formality of using the "Mrs. John Doe" format. I think there is a very different attitude about this in terms of a kind of etiquette. I notice this here at work with some of our much older trustees too. They cling to the husband's name issue in a way that may seem strange to younger women.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: atz75 on December 11, 2008, 04:22:47 pm ---One thing I find fascinating is a generational difference in attitude about this particular topic. I find that sometimes much, much older women (of my grandmother's era 80 and 90 year olds, etc.) they seem to really like the old formality of using the "Mrs. John Doe" format. I think there is a very different attitude about this in terms of a kind of etiquette. I notice this here at work with some of our much older trustees too. They cling to the husband's name issue in a way that may seem strange to younger women.
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Sadly, back in the era when they got married, having a husband was a woman's only route to recognition and status. If her husband was prominent and successful, so much the better, but even if not, at least it showed they were married and not (gasp!) spinsters. So to lose that, and be plain old Jane Doe, is stripping them of this marker. Maybe they feel approximately the way Dr. Doe might feel nowadays if you referred to her as Miss Doe.
My mom, by the way, was referred to in some junk mail as "Mrs. [my dad's name]" as long as she lived, even though she'd been divorced for about 30 years. She may have called herself that back in the '60s, but not for a long, long time.
Clyde-B:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on December 11, 2008, 04:40:36 pm ---Sadly, back in the era when they got married, having a husband was a woman's only route to recognition and status. If her husband was prominent and successful, so much the better, but even if not, at least it showed they were married and not (gasp!) spinsters. So to lose that, and be plain old Jane Doe, is stripping them of this marker. Maybe they feel approximately the way Dr. Doe might feel nowadays if you referred to her as Miss Doe.
My mom, by the way, was referred to in some junk mail as "Mrs. [my dad's name]" as long as she lived, even though she'd been divorced for about 30 years. She may have called herself that back in the '60s, but not for a long, long time.
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I think you are right. Since, in the past men were seen as holding the power, assuming his name - Mrs. John Doe - was a way of assuming some of that power for herself. Not a bad choice at the time.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: atz75 on December 11, 2008, 02:58:01 pm ---I guess the one fundamental aspect of the unfairness here, as del and others have suggested, is that the pressure to deal with the name issue falls on the woman and usually only on the woman.
The fact that men are so unwilling to change their names really speaks to something pretty deeply and ideologically ingrained in many western cultures (and certainly the U.S. predominantly).
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Exactly. The man has little to no concern about it. He remains who he is his entire life unless forced to change by his wife.
I have known women who married into families where the name of the husband was so incredibly important that the wife would be insulting an entire family should she not take his name and should she not name her first born son according to their family tradition.
I have never heard of any men in the U.S. culture who find themselves in similar situations.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: Clyde-B on December 11, 2008, 04:45:41 pm ---I think you are right. Since, in the past men were seen as holding the power, assuming his name - Mrs. John Doe - was a way of assuming some of that power for herself. Not a bad choice at the time.
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It was extremely common. I remember reading in a book about military wives in the 60's who also assumed the status of their husband's military rank. e.g. the wife of a major got more respect than the wife of a captain.
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