Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
"Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: TJ on April 29, 2006, 09:03:53 pm ---It is interesting what people are trying to guess the meaning of "Jack, I swear--" from their viewing of the movie; but, they never checked the words in Annie Proulx's short story. The part about buying the postcard is not in the movie either.
--- End quote ---
TJ, I think you might find that some people will feel strongly in opposition to your post here. That "I swear" being some kind of pledge is not in question. What he is pledging is. And your assessment that it is about never stopping loving Jack is an interpretation, not a truism. The insights you gain from reading the short-story only adds to your interpretation, since A.P. never says that he is talking about love. You do seem very involved with Brokeback Mountain, having at least seen the film and read the short-story, so I respect that you have an opinion that is worth listening to. However most of the people on this site fit into that category, and some could star in a remake without having to learn a single line or choreograph a sequence. Whether you agree with all of them, perhaps you might still learn something that you missed? I know I do, on a daily basis.
Also, I am concerned that you are making such a strong emphasis on religion here. Humbly I assert that this is off topic for a general conversation about the film. There is a topic that has already been raised on the topic of religion (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=883.0), and it may be better to discuss such ideas there. I'll be happy to check back there from time to time to see if you have.
TJ:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on April 29, 2006, 10:39:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: TJ on April 29, 2006, 09:03:53 pm ---It is interesting what people are trying to guess the meaning of "Jack, I swear--" from their viewing of the movie; but, they never checked the words in Annie Proulx's short story. The part about buying the postcard is not in the movie either.
--- End quote ---
TJ, I think you might find that some people will feel strongly in opposition to your post here. That "I swear" being some kind of pledge is not in question. What he is pledging is. And your assessment that it is about never stopping loving Jack is an interpretation, not a truism. The insights you gain from reading the short-story only adds to your interpretation, since A.P. never says that he is talking about love. You do seem very involved with Brokeback Mountain, having at least seen the film and read the short-story, so I respect that you have an opinion that is worth listening to. However most of the people on this site fit into that category, and some could star in a remake without having to learn a single line or choreograph a sequence. Whether you agree with all of them, perhaps you might still learn something that you missed? I know I do, on a daily basis.
Also, I am concerned that you are making such a strong emphasis on religion here. Humbly I assert that this is off topic for a general conversation about the film. There is a topic that has already been raised on the topic of religion (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=883.0), and it may be better to discuss such ideas there. I'll be happy to check back there from time to time to see if you have.
--- End quote ---
I don't want to start an international "war" here to speak; but, we in the USA who have lived in parts of the country where people who have similar backgrounds to Jack and/or Ennis look at things differently than those who have never lived in the area between west of the Mississippi River and Eastern side of the Western Continental Divide which is mostly in the Rocky Mountains. Annie Proulx does use expressions that I am quite familiar with because I have heard people use them in their everyday speech.
I notice that a lot of folks in the religion discussions could not even correctly spell "Pentecost." The word, which means "fifty," is only used once in the Annie Proulx story. I have found that many people have rejected the teachings of Jesus the Christ without ever reading what they are when they reject the organized religion of "Christian Orthodoxy," aka "Orthodox Christianity," which did not begin in 30 AD/ACE, but in 325 AD. "Christianity" became an organized religion when the the Emperor Constantine decide to call the first of the Seven Church Councils which met at Nicea (in Turkey).
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on April 22, 2006, 09:46:35 am ---Another way of feeling better about Ennis is by concentrating on how much happiness he experienced while Jack was still alive. True, not as much happiness as he might have, if he'd overcome his fears.
But having a love that wonderful for 20 years, even if he only saw his lover occasionally, is more than many of us ever have.
--- End quote ---
Yeehaw latjoreme! Seriously, I couldn't agree more. Upon my very first viewing ever my reaction to the whole situation (all the obstacles and sadness aside) was "wow, they were reallly, really lucky." I absolutely think that what they had was extremely special and those memories can help Ennis get by as the years go on (as Proulx suggests). We all tend to focus on the missed opportunities, the time lost, etc. but what they did have was quite a lot.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: atz75 on April 30, 2006, 12:22:17 am ---
--- Quote from: latjoreme on April 22, 2006, 09:46:35 am ---Another way of feeling better about Ennis is by concentrating on how much happiness he experienced while Jack was still alive. True, not as much happiness as he might have, if he'd overcome his fears.
But having a love that wonderful for 20 years, even if he only saw his lover occasionally, is more than many of us ever have.
--- End quote ---
Yeehaw latjoreme! Seriously, I couldn't agree more. Upon my very first viewing ever my reaction to the whole situation (all the obstacles and sadness aside) was "wow, they were reallly, really lucky." I absolutely think that what they had was extremely special and those memories can help Ennis get by as the years go on (as Proulx suggests). We all tend to focus on the missed opportunities, the time lost, etc. but what they did have was quite a lot.
--- End quote ---
Hey Amanda, I've come to believe that one of the reasons I generally agree with everything you write is that you seem to share my tendency to view this movie in a fairly positive light, to focus on the romantic and cute somewhat more than the frustrating and tragic, as much as we might also acknowlege the unhappy aspects. I'm not particularly Pollyannaish by nature -- if anything, the opposite -- but the movie's ambiguity affords a lot of leeway, and plenty of support for an interpretation that's, yes, achingly sad, but also thrilling and touching and to some extent upbeat (though this probably explains why both of us share the inclination to skip the last half). Anyway, I'm glad you're around and supplying so many thoughtful posts that usually happen to reflect my worldview. Er, my Brokebackview.
Brown Eyes:
Heya,
Yes, I think that despite all the sad things that happen in the movie, the positive things tend to out weigh them. The intense love between Jack and Ennis was a great thing regardless of all their difficulties. The happiness that they did share out weighs all the sadness. And, there are good reasons to be optimistic for Ennis at the end.
I think the tragedy in the film is an integral part of the romance. Most great romances are tragedies. One only needs to think of Romeo and Juliet and countless other classic and mythological figures to see this. So, our boys are "moonlight-crossed lovers" as opposed to Shakespeares's "star-crossed lovers." The great old Classical allusions thread was excellent at explaining the connections between Jack and Ennis and classical lovers... especially Aeneas and Dido.
I'm quoting CaseyCornelius here from the original old imdb thread.
"Ennis's final words of "Jack, I swear" echo those of Aeneas when confronted with the 'shade' or ghost of his beloved Dido who committed suicide after he abandoned her. Aeneas says to Dido's ghost, "I swear by every oath that hell can muster, I swear I left you against my will. The law of God--the law that sends me now through darkness, bramble, rot and profound night--unyielding drove me; nor could I have dreamed that in my leaving I would hurt you so".
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