Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Life and this movie are messy
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: BlissC on April 11, 2008, 06:42:59 pm ---I can't believe I've never noticed that before! Duh! It always struck me that Aguirre bringing them down from the mountain early, cutting their summer short, and their time together, and maybe altering the course of how their relationship might have developed had they had longer up on the mountain, but I can't believe I never noticed that with Aguirre's trailer! Must. Pay. Better. Attention.!!! :laugh:
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But wow, that's a good point, too, BlissC! I'd never made that connection before -- that Aguirre, representing God, cuts short their relationship on the mountain, foreshadowing how the actual God (or Fate, or whatever) cuts short their relationship 20 years later.
BlissC:
Ain't never enough time... :'(
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: seriouscrayons on April 11, 2008, 06:47:54 pm ---But wow, that's a good point, too, BlissC! I'd never made that connection before -- that Aguirre, representing God, cuts short their relationship on the mountain, foreshadowing how the actual God (or Fate, or whatever) cuts short their relationship 20 years later.
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I think the idea that Aguirre, at the end of the Brokeback summer, is the force introduces the "paradise lost" element of the story is very good. Aguirre certainly does represent (at the most basic levels) power and authority (including the power and authority to observe while at the same time not being observed himself). He sets the whole thing in motion in the beginning trailer scene and he "expels" them from the "paradise" of Brokeback too early towards the end of the summer after they've broken rules (changed jobs, fool around rather than watch the sheep, etc.). The idea (as stated by Proulx in the story) that Ennis and Jack never return to Brokeback seems really important here. Brokeback/ the '63 summer is their "lost" Eden or paradise and also the lost "golden age" of their youth when things seemed idyllic.
In that way BBM really does bounce off of some major religious themes and also off of some really Classical themes. The whole notion of shepherds of course has a lot of religious/poetic resonance, but also reminds me a lot of Classical pastoral imagery (i.e. things like a lost "golden age").
(When I say "religious" here I mean it in a general literary/metaphoric sense more than anything else).
Front-Ranger:
--- Quote from: atz75 on April 11, 2008, 01:56:18 pm ---Anyway, the shots of Ennis's face inserted between the dead sheep and Jack's naked body are really interesting to me. In a way, it's like Ennis is the factor here (or his ideas/memory/issues) that creates the equation between the threat of death/violence and Jack (or danger directed towards Jack... and himself too). At this point, of course, we don't yet know about Earl as film viewers... but the knowledge of Earl for a viewer who's seen the film more than once really can change how the sheep seems to function. Or, this scene takes on a loaded meaning in hindsight.
Lee, I think the sheep probably also does have a religious connotation. And, initially, in my first viewings of the dead sheep scene, I thought it was an over-determined symbol for loss of innocense or loss of virginity.
From my perspective, it can be all of these things at once. And, there are probably many other ways to interpret it as well.
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Right you are, atz75. I think of the sheep as a sacrifice, like the sacrifice of Christ in the crucifixion, or of the chicken in The Virginian or the Mudge Boy, the Minotaur to Theseus, or like the prized racehorse in The Godfather, to use an eclectic mix of sources. Yes it certainly also stands for loss of innocence but what does that mean really? As far as innocence goes, you may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity LOL! Does anybody really mourn the loss of their innocence?? Not me! Likewise virginity. Does anyone really mourn the loss of it? To me that seems like a paternalistic made-up concept. Rather we mourn the loss of an innocent creature that gets caught up in the machinations of man or nature. It doesn't seem fair. But death is a force of nature just like love. They are the flip sides of the coin, which falls at random. Perhaps this is another meaning of the dead sheep, depicting the randomness, the heartlessness, the total lack of mercy of Nature.
Your latest post is also very interesting. I recall the old movie "Aguirre Wrath of God" and Joe Aguirre is definitely a wrathful Jehovah-like person. The scenes you cite support this. And there's also the scene where Aguirre rides up and "fixes Jack with his bold stare" and gives him the news about his relative. Jack takes this omen of the innocent sacrifice of a loved one in stride and Aguirre seems to imply that Jack has the ability to cure illness, just as he seemed to imply earlier that Jack could save the sheep from being struck by lightning if he wanted to. And, glory be, he was right! Uncle Harold didn't die after all!! Aguirre and the slovenly black woman who plays God in The Matrix...we should get them together sometime!!
serious crayons:
More excellent points, ATZ and F-R!
Aguirre's role is very illustrative of the complexity of symbolism in BBM. Yes, he's God. And on the one hand, he's a benevolent god -- bringing them together, officiating at the wedding, saying nothing after he sees them frolicking. And on the other hand he's a wrathful God -- "No. No. Not on your fucking life!" abruptly casting them out of Paradise (after Ennis shoots that coyote with "balls the size of apples" -- coyotes are kind of the serpents of the Brokeback Eden), generally being a grouch. (In these respects, I guess, Aguirre is like the actual God.) Just goes to show how complicated it is to untangle the sheep metaphors in BBM.
Wonder why Aguirre keeps trying to give Jack the opportunity to perform Christlike miracles (the lightning, Uncle Harold), and Jack keeps disavowing them? BTW, have we ever noted that Jack's account of the mass sheep death is yet one more occurrence of a Jack-and-breathing-related problem ("thought I'd asphyxiate from the smell")?
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on April 11, 2008, 09:28:20 pm --- I recall the old movie "Aguirre Wrath of God"
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Pop quiz: How many degrees of separation from "Aguirre Wrath of God" to "Brokeback Mountain"? I can think of a progression with three.
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on April 11, 2008, 09:28:20 pm --- Does anybody really mourn the loss of their innocence?? Not me! Likewise virginity. Does anyone really mourn the loss of it? To me that seems like a paternalistic made-up concept.
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My feeling has always been that this is a parent's perspective. No one mourns the loss of his/her own innocence, but they do mourn watching their children lose theirs, and often try to postpone it as long as they can. In that case, the fig-leaf business -- the awareness of nakedness -- really does tend to segue right in to lost innocence in general. In this sense, as in so many others, the parent casts him/herself in the role of God.
I imagine it's always bittersweet at best, terrifying at worst, to watch your cute little child become a snotty teenage delinquent mature young man or woman.
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