Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
condiments
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 08, 2006, 12:09:50 pm ---Clearly, he does not value Alma's job--maybe even resents that she he has it. His attitude is that his job is the important one (he might get fired if any of the calves die), and Alma's job doesn't matter--never mind if she got fired for taking off in the middle of her shift. She's a woman and his wife, and her place is in the home. Like I said, male chauvinist.
--- End quote ---
A bit of defense here from a straight female who's been a feminist all her life:
IMO, there's a legit reason for Ennis' annoyance if you look at it as a long-term thing. He mentions to Jack that he's saving for a place of his own and mentions it in the same remark where he talks about marrying Alma. The impression I got was that he saw that, mistakenly or not, as something they were going to share. When Alma talks him into moving to town, his initial reaction is that it will be more expensive but in the next scene where you see him, there they are living above the laundromat,* and Alma as well as her husband has a job. The impression I got in that sequence was that even if Jack hadn't come back into Ennis' life, with the resulting "fishing trips" derailing various jobs, that was the beginning of the end of Ennis' idea of having their own place.
So I'd interpret at least some of his reaction in that scene to somewhat justified pissed-offness that she's gotten what she wanted in that sense but now doesn't want to deal with the consequences.
One last thing - one thing I noticed in the scenes before that was that at that point, Ennis was actually a lot more closely involved in taking care of the children than most young fathers of that era were. In the rented house scene, he goes into the next room to deal with both crying kids on his own and in the bedroom scene later he's clearly been the one to put them to bed. However that might look today, it was really pretty remarkable for a young father in that era.
Not a PC view, but that's my take on it.
* Since there's a scene with Alma washing not only her own clothes but her husband's and two kids' clothes by hand on a washboard, I can certainly see how living above a laundromat would have a definite allure. Even with running water in the house, that's a hard, boring, time-consuming chore.
Marty:
Hi, everyone. I've enjoyed reading the discussions here, and I'm looking forward to more!
What we know for sure about Ennis is his investment in "the way things are supposed to be." His struggle is reconciling his reality with his "supposed to's.: He's supposed to get married, supposed to have kids, supposed to have a family, supposed to support them, supposed to be there when the calves are born, and supposed to not love another man. He doesn't have a clear picture of how he's supposed to do all that (since his parents died and he was raised, then more or less abandoned, by siblings) and he's keenly aware of how he's failed in all of the "supposed to's."
I saw the grocery store scene and the extra shift scene in that light. In both, he's being slapped in the face by his own failure to meet that standard. If he was making enough money, his wife wouldn't have to go to work. If he had succeeded in doing what he was supposed to do, she'd have been at home taking care of the kids. It's not about whose job is more important, it's about his realization of his own inability to be a good man (according to the unrealistic standard that he perceives to have been set). His real anger is toward himself, and because that's too uncomfortable for him to acknowledge, it is expressed at Alma, the evidence of all his failings.
I hope that doesn't sound too psychoanalytical. That's just kind of how I see the character.
Marty
serious crayons:
Hi Marge and Marty, you both make excellent points! Neither too un-PC, nor too psychoanalytical, for the record. They deepen my understanding of that situation.
Marge, you're right; I tend to forget about Ennis' "I'm savin for a place, myself," because it seems so unrealistic. But, whether feasible or not, it clearly was his dream.
And Marty, I agree that "supposed to" is pretty much Ennis' cardinal rule. He's supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em; in a larger, more abstract sense -- the responsibility to fulfill expectations and duty -- it's his governing motto (along with standing what you can't fix).
Welcome to BetterMost, both of you! Marty's first post and Marge's fourth or so? You are off to a great start and I look forward to seeing you around. :)
Ellemeno:
Thank you, Everyone. I was swayed a bit in this direction by one, in the other direction by another. I love that about this place. I'm intrigued by what Lee wrote about significant things coming in threes in this film. Do we have a thread on that? Could someone (Lee?) start one, so I may learn?
dly64:
I brought this thread back up because, even though I had not responded to it initially, this discussion has stuck in my mind.
I have watched this scene over and over and have found much of the conversation (in this thread) enlightening. The one thing I didn’t really read is the role of Monroe. IMO, Monroe is a key element to this scene. It establishes his infatuation with Alma and it sets him up as a responsible person who comes to Alma’s aid after Ennis drops the kids “in her lap”.
I really like Marty’s theory …
--- Quote from: Marty on July 15, 2006, 11:08:54 am ---I saw the grocery store scene and the extra shift scene in that light. In both, he's being slapped in the face by his own failure to meet that standard. If he was making enough money, his wife wouldn't have to go to work. If he had succeeded in doing what he was supposed to do, she'd have been at home taking care of the kids. It's not about whose job is more important, it's about his realization of his own inability to be a good man (according to the unrealistic standard that he perceives to have been set). His real anger is toward himself, and because that's too uncomfortable for him to acknowledge, it is expressed at Alma, the evidence of all his failings.
--- End quote ---
This interpretation goes in tandem with the scene where Alma tells Ennis she’d have more kids if he’d support them. Ennis’ “failings” as a provider is only reemphasized when we see Ennis at Thanksgiving. Alma now lives in a house and is pregnant … which shows Ennis that she is willing to have more children because she is now married to a man who can financially support her (and the girls).
I also wonder whether or not Ennis sees his own irresponsibility come out of his relationship with Jack. What I mean by this … in the lake scene, Jack says to Ennis: “You used to come away easy. Now it’s like seeing the pope.” Ennis then replies, “Jack, I gotta work. In them earlier days, I’d just quit the job. You ever hear of child support?” Now Ennis is forced to be responsible. Is this just another slap in Ennis’ face? Another instance of Ennis’ failure? Just a thought.
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