Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

It's January - Time to Watch It Again

<< < (2/3) > >>

Katie77:

--- Quote from: retropian on January 16, 2009, 04:29:10 am ---
As far as Randall goes. I was wondering how much Jack loved him? Was Jack ready to leave Ennis because he wasn't getting what he needed? Was Randall really prepared to leave his wife for Jack and move to Lightening Flat? Everybody seems to think Randall was just a substitute for Ennis, but what if he really was more. How might Jack have responded to someone who might have professed his love... verbally! What if Jack really had fallen for another guy who gave him what Ennis could not? Why would he talk to his parents about Randall leaving his wife and moving to the ranch? Just because he's settling? Jack doesn't settle for beans, and maybe Ennis was becoming beans.


--- End quote ---

Thats an interesting point, and I dont know whether it has been discussed at great length on here or not, about whether we think Jack actually loved Randall, or he was looking at him more as a substitute for Ennis.

Personally, I did not notice fireworks when Jack met Randall, not like when he first set eyes on Ennis.

And Jack still went away with Ennis, while we are supposing that he had hooked up with Randall. When he tells Ennis that he is seeing a "ranchers wife", we assume it is really Randall, and it was in that scene when Jack says, "Sometimes I miss you so bad", and then after that we have the lake scene, with the "goddam bitch of an unsastisfactory situation". I think that sentence reflects the  frustration, of not only the fact that Ennis wont go with him, but that privately and without Ennis's knowledge, he is substituting someone else for him.

No, I dont think Jack loved Randall, at least not in the same way as he loved Ennis.  My thought is, that Randall was a willing partner to satisfy Jack's needs, he lived close by, he was probably not as paranoid as Ennis, and they had a cabin that was at their disposal to use when they wanted to.

retropian:

--- Quote from: Katie77 on January 16, 2009, 05:14:33 am ---Thats an interesting point, and I dont know whether it has been discussed at great length on here or not, about whether we think Jack actually loved Randall, or he was looking at him more as a substitute for Ennis.

Personally, I did not notice fireworks when Jack met Randall, not like when he first set eyes on Ennis.

And Jack still went away with Ennis, while we are supposing that he had hooked up with Randall. When he tells Ennis that he is seeing a "ranchers wife", we assume it is really Randall, and it was in that scene when Jack says, "Sometimes I miss you so bad", and then after that we have the lake scene, with the "goddam bitch of an unsastisfactory situation". I think that sentence reflects the  frustration, of not only the fact that Ennis wont go with him, but that privately and without Ennis's knowledge, he is substituting someone else for him.

No, I dont think Jack loved Randall, at least not in the same way as he loved Ennis.  My thought is, that Randall was a willing partner to satisfy Jack's needs, he lived close by, he was probably not as paranoid as Ennis, and they had a cabin that was at their disposal to use when they wanted to.

--- End quote ---

Oh, you're right about all of that. I was just exploring some thoughts. What I really think is that Jack was looking for someone to live an authentic life with. He had begun to pursue the possibilities with Randall since it seemed clear after 20 years that it was impossible with Ennis. As far as Ennis goes, the mention of Randall, of some other guy in Jacks life, I think forced him to realize that he loved Jack. I think Ennis was never able to admit to himself he loved a man. That admission would make him queer and even so long into their relationship Ennis still could not allow that. I think the revelation of Randall's existence sparked some jealousy or pain in knowing Jack had another man in Ennis and forced him to admit he loved him. His big discovery was not that had Jack loved him but that he had loved Jack.

Phillip Dampier:

--- Quote from: Phillip Dampier on January 15, 2009, 01:42:25 pm ---And she just seems to be seething when she isn't upset. Now that seething could be because she can't believe Jack would be so stupid as to die this way, or seething that she found out her marriage was a sham.

--- End quote ---

Just want to clarify this quickly to make sure people realize I am referring this to the tire-rim story, not the bashing.

Monika:

--- Quote from: retropian on January 16, 2009, 09:51:07 am --- His big discovery was not that had Jack loved him but that he had loved Jack.

--- End quote ---
that´s a beautiful thought. I have never thought about it like that before but have always thought about it the other way around; that Ennis during his visit in LF, realises just how much Jack loved him. But maybe it was the other way around. I love, love, love the complexity of this movie.

retropian:

--- Quote from: buffymon on January 18, 2009, 08:23:26 am ---that´s a beautiful thought. I have never thought about it like that before but have always thought about it the other way around; that Ennis during his visit in LF, realises just how much Jack loved him. But maybe it was the other way around. I love, love, love the complexity of this movie.

--- End quote ---

Thanks! I think Ennis really begins to understand that Jack loves him in the Cassie "girls don't fall in love with fun" scene, or perhaps he realizes he loves Jack. That's why he let his relationship with Cassie just fade away. The depth of Jacks love is revealed to him when he discovers the shirts. I know there is some debate about this, but I heard, no doubt about it, Ennis whisper/exhale so quietly "I love you" into the shirts.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page