Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Why Jack Quit Ennis
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 13, 2006, 04:05:13 pm ---I'm sorry to go way OT here for a minute, but I feel terrible about something and this seems like the best place to address it.
Somebody just PMed me and said they were offended when in my previous post I said, …
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--- Quote ---If anybody has any response to the above, one way or another, please PM me rather than post it here so I won't have to feel any guiltier than I already do about going so OT.
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Sorry to go against your wishes, latjoreme, but since I’m the original poster, I’ll take the right to do so – I’m going to post a response here – because you deserve public support.
Obviously I do not know the complete contents of the PM that was sent to you. But I do know what you said here. And I do know what you wrote in your post above. And I read the context of it. If someone misunderstood and asked whether you were joking, fine. No problem. But if someone made a conscious choice to take offense at what you wrote – and thereby implicitly accused you of an intent to offend – AND then consciously and with intent acted offensively to you by calling you arrogant and accusing you of an “attitude” -- then phewy!
Without a clear intent to offend from the original speaker/writer, offense taken by the listener/reader is a personal conscious choice and decision. There is nothing you can do to stop that someone from choosing to do that. Inadvertent, whimsical remarks made on a message board such as this one are not the place to find offense in life. A very simple response of “Sorry if you were offended” is completely sufficient. I do not like that anyone put you in a place where you felt you had to post all that you posted in your apology. I understand why you did it and I’m sorry that someone else put you in that position.
I know whereof I speak. I was put into a similar position on this board. Same kind of criticism. Dismiss it. Each person in this forum has his or her own unique personality. And I treasure that. In all of the threads that I've read and posted to I have not seen one post by anyone that I would have taken offense at or that I felt showed an undue or inappropriate attitude.
--- Quote ---Of course you can't apply searing logic to every aspect of a movie with huge emotional impact.
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Of course you can. Anyone can. If that’s the way a person wants to approach the film, then I can’t figure out what in the world would give any other person any business at all to take an issue with that personal choice.
--- Quote ---I am tempted to delete the whole thing, …
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You damn well better not! I still have to respond to it! ;D
--- Quote ---… the person also said s/he has resented my attitude on other posts, and that others have complained about it, too.
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Tough shit. It’s NOT about your attitude. It’s about that person’s assumptions about your attitude. You have NEVER displayed an “attitude” or arrogance that I have seen. Quite the opposite. The focus should be on that person’s assumptions. Interesting, isn’t it, that that person can accuse you of having an “attitude” and being “arrogant” when you didn’t intend it, but that person then intended to make the assumption and then had the gall to tell you about it with intentionally offensive words.
As to "running people off" -- EVERYONE has a right to state his or her own opinion and to state it strongly and directly and to take ownership of it. EVERYONE has a right to disagree and to say so. Everyone has the opportunity to argue his or her position and to counterargue other positions. If someone felt "run off" without having someone starting to get personal and insulting, then too bad... try harder next time.
Latjoreme – if you change the way you are just because someone chose to take offense at an unintentional remark AND THEN was intentionally offensive to you… well, I’ll be sorely disappointed.
dly64:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 13, 2006, 04:05:13 pm ---I like debating things and sometimes I probably come on too strong (that's the attitude of mine I was making fun of above). I really don't think I'm the only one who likes to debate; many of us here often pose pretty formidable opinions. Personally, I don't mind that; in fact I think it's fun. I assumed it was fun for others, too. Not for everybody, I see now.
I really, really like everyone here. So I can't begin to tell you how bad I feel about the news that others have been angered or offended. I don't want anyone here ever to feel bad, let alone bad enough to leave. I was upset when four people left yesterday, because I like all of those people and will miss them. it's dismaying to think that people get unhappy enough to make a dramatic exit (though in that case, the issues appear to have been very different).
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Girl! You know I love debating ... so I hope that you don't stop giving your opinion. I am sorry to hear that people were upset. Just to let you know, I really enjoy hearing what you have to say (even though we don't always agree ... that's the fun of it, IMO!)
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: ruthlesslyunsentimental on July 13, 2006, 06:48:00 pm ---I agree 100%.
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Thank you, my dear. As I agree 100% with your most recent response to Katherine.
As someone who's been accused of having an attitude and being arrogant on another board at which I thought everyone understood or at least respected me, it makes my heart hurt to hear that someone who has taken such great pains not to offend as Katherine has here is being lambasted privately for being willfully offensive. I've seen people post truly nasty, hurtful things with attitude on other boards, but very rarely here - *much* more rarely here, in fact, than I've ever encountered in 10+ years of posting in online forums - and Katherine has never been one of them as far as I'm concerned.
dly64:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on July 13, 2006, 09:43:11 pm ---As someone who's been accused of having an attitude and being arrogant on another board at which I thought everyone understood or at least respected me, it makes my heart hurt to hear that someone who has taken such great pains not to offend as Katherine has here is being lambasted privately for being willfully offensive. I've seen people post truly nasty, hurtful things with attitude on other boards, but very rarely here - *much* more rarely here, in fact, than I've ever encountered in 10+ years of posting in online forums - and Katherine has never been one of them as far as I'm concerned.
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DITTO!!! Are we all in agreement!? Katherine - DON'T CHANGE!!!
bbm_stitchbuffyfan:
I'm only through page one right now but I can't read 2 and 3 at this minute. I'm not alone in the room and I am really struggling to stay composed. Or, well, subtle.
I really am just stunned. I had never really thought Jack could move on -- in his heart, he never will -- but this essay makes PERFECT sense and is totally clear (it makes me love the movie even more -- which somehow is still possible... ??).
But, Good God, this is such a profound, heartbreaking cap to one of my sadder Brokeback days. This morning all I did was simply pop in the DVD to check ONE THING, caught sight of the wrong scene (there's something heartbreaking to me about seeing the boys getting old and bogged down by life in the "Maybe you oughtta get outta there, come down to Texas" scene.) and before I knew it, I was in hysterical tears, locked in the bathroom.
But bravo, ruthlessly, on a clear, revelatory essay ... and bravo to the filmmakers -- how people call this film 'mediocre' (or less) is beyond me.
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