Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

Why Jack Quit Ennis

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Mikaela:
Now again, there's so much I'd like to comment on and Waaaaaaah! Never enough time, never enough!

I'll reply to this  one first:


--- Quote ---OK – please indulge my little rant… I hate going to extraneous things that just aren’t “Brokeback Mountain.”  To me, BBM is the film as we see it with our eyes and hear it with our ears.  The short story, the screenplay, the script, comments from Proulx, Lee, the actors… it’s all just speculation and interpretation.  The film does not follow the short story, the screenplay, or the script in every way, and in many instances, not in key ways.  Facts were changed and cannot be translated from any one to any one of the others.  Same with motivations – except for “well, possibly what’s going on here…”  But that’s no different than any other interpretation any one else would come up with.  The people involved have all said many things about BBM.  Too often, they contradict each other and they contradict themselves.  Too often, they change their story over time.  And one of the biggest offenders in this regard is Proulx.  Yes, she’s the author of the short story, but she’s not the author of the film.  Even Lee’s intentions for what he wanted to do with the film and get across through the film did not all come to pass.  The film is as we see and hear it.  It’s not fair to try and change what we see and hear by going to extraneous sources.

--- End quote ---


I have to heartily and respectfully disagree. I think the short story, the script versions and the final published script, as well as interviews given by the producers, script writers, director and actors, are all relevant and very interesting to consider for me when I ponder the film and the characters and message – what it means to me and how it impacts me.

Producers, writers, director and actors have all talked about how the original short story made an impact on *them*, and/or how the script that was “floating around Hollywood” made a similar impact. The original story and the script(s) informed and inspired their understanding of the film they ended up making, everything we see when we see the film. It informed and inspired the way they presented the characters, the messages and symbolism that they wanted to get across. The short story and script(s) represented the foundation on which the marvelous structure that we now can pop into the DVD player was firmly built. Therefore, it’s not in any way extraneous to me to consider these sources and that foundation when grappling with understanding and interpreting the film, the scenes, the characters, the symbolism etc. etc.

I’ve joined this discussion board in order to discuss the film. I want to be able to air my opinions, to get fresh perspectives from others, to ask questions and to obtain illuminating information pertaining to the film and the filming process;  – to examine every angle of thoughts and emotions that I have concerning this film and concerning Jack and Ennis - in communication with others. Hopefully I’ll get new ideas and better understanding than if I just watched the film in a black box all to myself, didn’t read anything about it, and never discussed it. If I didn’t include the short story, interviews and scripts in this broadly defined communication about the film, it would mean cutting out some of the most relevant opinions, and muting some of the most knowledgable voices. It would mean not wanting to listen to the people who’ve thought about Jack and Ennis the most. That seems very strange to me.

Going from the short story via the script to the film is to be given insight into the process that created the film, the process that takes the next step when I see the film and interpret it, and the next step again when I start discussing it with others to share views and opinions. I think every step of the process has something to tell us about Jack and Ennis……. Including the changes that were made along the way. *Why* was so-and-so added? Why was so-and-so removed? In what way does that impact the final characterization, and the story? Can it shed any light on the characters, or – as is just as relevant a question – not?

For instance, in forming my own opinions about Ennis, I don’t want to disregard what Heath Ledger has to tell me concerning h is creation and understanding of the character. That doesn’t mean that his acting of the character as seen in the film won’t remain the main source of understanding. It always will. But if there seems to be a conflict between the two, I still think it will pay to go re-examine that…. Is there really a conflict? Or is there some nuance or aspect or connection I’ve not seen or misread? If the former, if there is a conflict, so be it. The film wins hands down. There are many examples of this. The very main one, I suppose, is when the short story *and* (more mysteriously) the published script tells us that Ennis does not embrace Jack face to face in the dozy because he does not want to see nor feel that he is holding Jack – a man. It doesn’t make sense in the *film* since we’ve seen him embracing Jack face to face in a scene that in the linear timeline came before the dozy. And it doesn’t make sense because Heath isn’t acting Ennis in the dozy that way – he’s clearly looking at Jake's profile. So the film wins, and I remain baffled at the published script’s inclusion of that particular description. Still, if anything, it gave me food for discussion and reexamination of the film – and what’s wrong about that? Nothing.

I don’t mean to say that I think every possible source initiated by the author, actors, director, writer or producers and pertaining to the film are equally relevant. The relevance has to be considered in each case, by each of us, and I’m sure our opinions will differ very much on that too. I suppose to me it’s a continuum, with the final script and the short story at one end, in-depth interviews such as the Charlie Rose interview with Heath Ledger and Ang Lee in the middle, and one-minute talk-show interviews designed mainly to create laughs and attention at the very far non-interesting) end. Silly kissing questions that obtained equally silly replies doesn’t do much for anyone’s understanding, though they may have helped talk show ratings for all I know.

For when all is said and done, the main source of course is and will always remain the film.

One of the things Annie Proulx has said that has increased my respect for her another notch, is her praise of Heath Ledger in saying that when seeing the film she realized he “knew better than her how Ennis felt and thought”.  Not only is that a sign of a person who keeps her feet firmly grounded and hasn’t bought into any hype concerning herself, but it’s a liberating carte blanche to us readers and viewers to go ahead and create our personal version and understanding. Not that I’d have expected anything else from artists who places their work of art before us, but there it is. Heath built on her story and the script and his own interpretation – and built a "better" understanding of Ennis than the original creator had. If we build on all that, *and* his portrayal *and* our own experiences and emotions and interpretations – will our understanding be diminished, more confused, less clear and ambiguous than if we held strictly to the film and nothing else? I think not. All input including scripts, short story and interviews can only enhance and broaden our understanding and perspectives on Brokeback.

In my personal view. Which I do by no means mean to say others need to share!  :)

silkncense:
Once again I'm late to the dance & everyone's already paired up...

Anyway - I read elsewhere (was it TOB?) the thread about Jack "quitting" Ennis & posted a response.  Since I now have no idea where it was, I would like to offer my Ennisesq response again.

From my observation, I saw that Jack was definitely considering quitting Ennis, thus the conversation the last night at the lake, including "Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."  Jack was looking for some hope from Ennis & got none.

When Ennis cancelled August, Jack was back to mulling over whether to end the relationship then & there, thus the "I wish I knew how to quit you." 

Ennis saying, "Why don't you then..." gave Jack the permission he needed.  BUT, when Ennis uncontrollably collapsed (from the thought that the relationship was ending - that Jack had been with other men & all the emotion that that absolute fear brought to him), Jack could not stand it. 

Jack came back, emotionally & physically to Ennis.  He moved to hold him & despite the perfect opportunity to say "OK" , fought to bring Ennis back to him when Ennis tried denying his feelings w/ "Get the fuck off of me!"  And Jack, who was almost there, almost ready to break away, said, "Damn you, Ennis".

The last view of Jack for me is his inner turmoil now.  He was almost there.  Almost ready to let Ennis go.  Now where was he?  Hurt & confused and no further resolved than before, remembering how much he loves Ennis.

The conversation Jack had w/ his folks at Ligthning Flat was an attempt to move on.  But 'the ranch neighbor' had no name.  Unlike Ennis. 

And when Ennis came to the Twist ranch, Jack's mother knew this was the love of Jack's life.  And that is why she so gently touched Ennis when her husband mentioned the ranch neighbor - to assure Ennis that the ranch neighbor comment should not hurt him -  & why she encouraged Ennis to go to Jack's room & KNEW, with that nod & smile, what those shirts meant when she saw Ennis cradling them.

Now, that's more words than I'd wrote all year...

Daphne7661:
Ahhh, thank you for that insightful post silkncense....

Perhaps Jack did only contemplate quitting Ennis...  That makes me VERY happy...

As I mentioned before, I had always counted on Jack's big heart to keep fighting for his and Ennis' love...

Thank Heavens for Mrs. Twist!!!

David:

--- Quote from: Daphne7661 on July 15, 2006, 02:06:20 pm ---Ahhh, thank you for that insightful post silkncense....

Perhaps Jack did only contemplate quitting Ennis...  That makes me VERY happy...

As I mentioned before, I had always counted on Jack's big heart to keep fighting for his and Ennis' love...

Thank Heavens for Mrs. Twist!!!


--- End quote ---

True,  Jacks Mom lets Ennis know that he was her sons true love.

So if Jack did leave lightning flat calmed down and forgetting about Randall, what happened in Texas?

I think Jack was real frustrated.  He was in love with Ennis, angry about the situation and not willing to let go.   Was he just going to keep things the way they were?     As Lureen said, Jack drank alot.   Maybe he got liquored up and went out looking for trouble?   He sure found it. 

ruthlesslyunsentimental:
Everyone – you may have heard by now that I have decided to leave this forum – I will be posting a good-bye post today.  Thanks for all of the wonderful discussions.  I truly appreciate it.  You are amazing people!


Dly64 – I couldn’t leave without responding to your most recent post.  I read it and think it is one of the most wonderful posts I have read.  It cleared up the confusion I had before and it’s straight forward, concise… it conveys your point of view beautifully and so I didn’t want to leave without saying that.



--- Quote ---Okay you guys …. Let me clarify. 

Now … what I meant by Jack going to Lightning Flat. I am not saying that when Jack went there he didn’t help out around the ranch. What I am saying is that Jack’s primary motivation is not to go there to mow and fix gates, etc. I think Jack tended to go up to Lightning Flat after he had just been with Ennis … not because he wanted to see the shirts instead of Ennis. Rather, he went to see the shirts to be close to a part of Ennis after Ennis left.  I am not sure if I am explaining this very eloquently … let me break it down another way ….

There is a theme of Ennis leaving/ disappointing Jack:
•   Ennis leaves Jack to go up to the sheep after TS1
•   Ennis leaves Jack post mountain
•   Ennis makes it clear that he and Jack will never “ranch up” together after their reunion
•   After Ennis’ divorce and Jack drives up 14 hours because he thinks Ennis has decided to have a life with him … Ennis turns him away
•   After the “dozy embrace” … Ennis rides away
•   After the row, Ennis drives away

Every time Ennis leaves, it reminds Jack of what he could have had. Jack misses Ennis to the point he can hardly stand it. When he goes to Lightning Flat … the shirts are a reminder of what they had on the mountain; freedom from rural homophobia and from their own internal fears and struggles. They could be free to love each other openly. They could be free from glares and speculations. It was just the two of them.
--- End quote ---

Excellent.  Excellent.  Excellent.  I know this sounds stupid, but I really did think you meant Jack would rather be with the shirts than with Ennis.  But I still knew you couldn’t really mean that.  So this cleared it up for me and was a wonderful way of saying it.



--- Quote ---However, Jack’s reason for getting involved with Randall in the first place, IMO, was to meet Jack’s sexual needs.
--- End quote ---

Very good point!


Ruthlessly:

--- Quote ---I have a hard time wrapping myself around this one.  Would you still say the same thing in light of the fact that at the breakdown Jack became acutely aware of the destructive effects on Ennis due to his inability to keep his worlds in harmony?  This is the part I have the hardest time coming to grips with: Jack loving Ennis so much that he chooses to keep Ennis in suffering.  I don’t see Jack that way.
--- End quote ---

Dly64:

--- Quote ---Doesn’t Ennis keep the relationship going with Jack even though he knows Jack is suffering? Ennis is acutely aware of the toll that their relationship has taken on Jack, but is unable to let him go. IMO, this is the same thing with Jack. It isn’t that either one wants to see the other in turmoil and pain. However, their relationship has been hard. It has been difficult. It has been painful. It has been separate. Despite all of this, they are part of each other. They complete each other. They represent the yin and the yang … two opposites becoming a whole.
--- End quote ---

I agree with what you said about Ennis.  But as to Jack, it seems to me that he learns the depth of the difficulty and pain for Ennis when Ennis has his breakdown.  Jack has never seen this before.  I agree with them completing, being parts of each other, etc., but this can still be true even if they never see each other again in this lifetime.



--- Quote ---You have a compelling argument.
--- End quote ---

Well, I’m glad you finally see it my way!     ;)     :laugh:



--- Quote ---It is because they love each other to the core that makes it impossible to let each go free.
--- End quote ---

This is our big sticking point.  I agree with your sentence with only one word change… “impossible” to “imperative.”



--- Quote ---Even in death, Ennis cannot let Jack go.
--- End quote ---

But, Ennis isn’t the one who had to do the letting go.  He’s the one who had to be let go.


… Just as I do now.      :'(     Thanks dly64!  I’ve enjoyed our discussions.  You’re sensitive and “hopelessly romantic” so in a sense, you’re the yin to my yang.      :)      I will miss discussing things with you, but it’s for the best all around.  What I’ll really miss most of all is seeing you come around to my way of thinking on this issue!      :laugh:     Take care.

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