The World Beyond BetterMost > Women Today
Do you consider yourself a feminist? (A question for both women and men.)
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on March 16, 2009, 04:02:42 pm ---I assume this is not a serious post.
but, just in case....it's somewhat hard not to be sarcastic. "what about the everyday world of poor women"? What about the everyday world of poor men? How about the everyday world of poor people? The overt sexism of this post is exemplory of the nature of feminism--focus only on women and the rest of the humankind are irrelevant.
Poor men, just so you know, have been and continue to be in a worse position than poor women. There are no social welfare programs specifically targeted to aid men; it nearly all goes to women and children. That is largely why the "homeless" that are visible on the street are overwhelmingly men; women and children are the ones who are attended to for shelter, food and housing first. And there is little left for the men.
As for "cheap entertainment via sex" for the enjoyment of men being poor women's only lot in life, once again, such a riduculous comment it can hardly even be classified as a comment; it's only a jibe. Even when poor women end up with kids and no husband to support her (I wonder who's to blame on that score?), they receive health care and food and shelter while the poor man or men in her life scour the garbage cans.
So, the claim that women are not fairly represented in the work force at every level is wrong and the claim that poor women remain disadvantaged because of their gender versus poor men is wrong as well. All women's ships rose with the feminist tide.
--- End quote ---
I agree, and I hope that I am not putting word in your mouth, but here goes.
IMO Feminism has devolved into Sexism on a greedy quest for power grabbing.
Feminism in the days of my great grandmother and aunts, who were a Suffragettes, was about equal rights under the law, but in 2008 it is just a reflection of yet another identity group demanding a guaranteed piece of the pie. And this fits into the whole framework of identity politics pioneered by late 20th century feminists.
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on March 16, 2009, 04:18:42 pm ---What a sexist thing to say! Is that the 'with us or against us' position that has appeared fairly promient in the feminist agenda?
If supporting equal rights and not being a feminist is a contradiction, then I would like to know if you support equal rights for men, and if so, are you a masculinist?
--- End quote ---
so Feminism is just advocacy of equal rights? nope, that is not the way that hand has been played out over the past decades.
unless Feminists are following the dictates of "Animal Farm" equality, such as:
"all are equal, but some are more equal than others if they can belly ache loudly enough to join the victimhood brigade"
louisev:
I can't believe I'm doing this but I am finding myself in partial agreement with Brokeplex here on the recasting of "feminism" as "advocacy of equal rights." I'm afraid this just simply isn't true. IF it were, I would have become a feminist back in the 1970's.
Feminism has a great deal more to it than that, and while I will concede to those who have been on the inside that feminism is not a monolithic "Feminist Party" with a platform, the NOW certainly has a platform, and when I was approached by members of NOW with a picture of Thelma and Louise on a button, I recoiled in horror. I was baffled into silence as to why a women's rights organization would ever see Thelma and Louise from the eponymous film as some sort of heroines of the feminist movement. They were KILLERS for Chrissakes. I walked away from the NOW recruitment table and have stayed away from them ever since.
While their platform does state "equal rights and participation of women in all walks of life", which I certainly agree with, I have never agreed with the rhetoric, the advocacy of a third party,
louisev:
--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on March 16, 2009, 05:52:42 pm ---Just so you know, the "current" census is 2000, from which my data was taken. your attempt to use 1990 census data and make an incorrect point, was noted as a ploy and subversive tactic. Shame, shame.
The "trend" is likely continuing since 2000, so the 24% of father-only households in 2000 is by many estimates that "almost 30%" of father-only single parent households is a valid statement.
--- End quote ---
I didn't "attempt to use 1990 census data." I used the only data I could find in a google search of 'single-parent demographics." But conceding the fact that single-parent families headed by a male have gone up, you have not yet, after three requests, provided evidence of these male single parents being discriminated against in seeking public aid which is being funneled in some manner to the single mothers.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: louisev on March 16, 2009, 05:53:36 pm ---I can't believe I'm doing this but I am finding myself in partial agreement with Brokeplex here
--- End quote ---
Wow, there is really something strange going on around here today. :laugh:
--- Quote --- I was baffled into silence as to why a women's rights organization would ever see Thelma and Louise from the eponymous film as some sort of heroines of the feminist movement. They were KILLERS for Chrissakes.
--- End quote ---
Maybe they felt that women have an equal right to murder, homicide being an area in which women are vastly underrepresented. ;)
No, seriously I understand your recoiling from identifying with killers. When Thelma and Louise came out (and La Femme Nikita, at about that same time) I wrote a lifestyle feature about this very topic. I think some feminists just got carried away with the novelty of women playing active, even violent figures, for a change. (Little did they realize that the stock movie character would soon prove common, albeit evolving into a scantily-clad fantasy figure for men.)
I don't see feminism and NOW as synonymous at all. I've always been a feminist, never belonged to NOW.
So let me ask -- not just Louise but anyone who considers feminism as something more than a simple belief in equal rights for women -- what else do you consider it to be? Nobody has been very specific about that -- brokeplex's "greedy quest for power grabbing" is about the closest, but isn't very concrete.
I walked away from the NOW recruitment table and have stayed away from them ever since.
While their platform does state "equal rights and participation of women in all walks of life", which I certainly agree with, I have never agreed with the rhetoric, the advocacy of a third party,
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