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David:

--- Quote from: starboardlight on July 23, 2006, 03:35:24 pm ---electric cars are dorky. oh yeah?

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

--- End quote ---

Far out!    Sounds too good to be true!

The irony is that if we all switched to Electric cars, there would be a sudden glut of Gasoline available thus driving down the price!

Giancarlo:
I think it would be a better idea if we switch to Hybrids. Seems more practical. Remember that to charge electric vehicles you need electricity and to provide that electricity it has to come from petroleum power plants (in the United States (roughly 70% of power in the US is provided from either oil or coal [mainly oil, as coal has been phased out]). So even if we all switch to electric vehicles the power has to come from somewhere (and right now, electric vehicles are not really a good idea in California as our power grid is stretched).

starboardlight:
nope. it doesn't have to come from petroleum derived power. at least not in California. did you know that you can designate your power to come from green source, if you're a LA DWP customer? It'll cost you slightly more to be a green power consumer but it's worth it, and as more people sign on, economy of scale will help bring down the cost to individuals. In addition, Tesla has a deal where they'll help you set up solar charger at home, so that all your energy need for the roadster comes from solar energy. Even if you use petroleum generated electricity, it's still much less than the hybrid. I would encourage you to read through their site as well as other researched stats. The film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" has a great section on this. The amount of petroleum used per mile in an electric car versus a hybrid still favors the electric, simply because of economy of scale. The power plant can turn petroleum into energy more efficiently than a hybrid motor. Admittedly, the electric car is harder for renters who have to deal with parking, much less a place to install the charger. But for home owners, the electric car will be ideal.

Giancarlo:

--- Quote from: starboardlight on July 23, 2006, 07:55:36 pm ---nope. it doesn't have to come from petroleum derived power. at least not in California. did you know that you can designate your power to come from green source, if you're a LA DWP customer? It'll cost you slightly more to be a green power consumer but it's worth it, and as more people sign on, economy of scale will help bring down the cost to individuals. In addition, Tesla has a deal where they'll help you set up solar charger at home, so that all your energy need for the roadster comes from solar energy. Even if you use petroleum generated electricity, it's still much less than the hybrid. I would encourage you to read through their site as well as other researched stats. The film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" has a great section on this. The amount of petroleum used per mile in an electric car versus a hybrid still favors the electric, simply because of economy of scale. The power plant can turn petroleum into energy more efficiently than a hybrid motor. Admittedly, the electric car is harder for renters who have to deal with parking, much less a place to install the charger. But for home owners, the electric car will be ideal.

--- End quote ---

I am in an apartment building that has the utlities covered by the management (as many apartment buildings are, utilities are covered by the rent). Even if I could, I would most likely not be able to afford it. What we need in this city is a centralization. A sprawling urban mess like what it is now leads to more power usage, more gas usage (obviously you have to drive from place to place) and poor air quality. The more people who sign up for it, the more strain there is on the power source and then the price goes up. Supply and demand. The more people who demand a product, the higher the price goes. We see this with petroleum. Either way, I still think hybrid vehicles are far more effective then electric vehicles, and they last longer too. I would recommend you stop making things up and start reading the facts about hybrid vehicles (which are incredibly effective vehicles, and are faster then electric cars). For anyone, hybrid vehilces are the ideal, and Toyota basically has it down with its hybrid line (especially the Toyota Prius which gets 42/65MPG).

You can even reverse engineer hybrids to get even higher then that (some estimates say from 80-100MPG).

Please also go through supply/demand and see why your reasoning is not entirely accurate.

starboardlight:

--- Quote from: Giancarlo on July 23, 2006, 08:03:18 pm ---I am in an apartment building that has the utlities covered by the management (as many apartment buildings are, utilities are covered by the rent). Even if I could, I would most likely not be able to afford it. What we need in this city is a centralization. A sprawling urban mess like what it is now leads to more power usage, more gas usage (obviously you have to drive from place to place) and poor air quality. The more people who sign up for it, the more strain there is on the power source and then the price goes up. Supply and demand. The more people who demand a product, the higher the price goes. We see this with petroleum. Either way, I still think hybrid vehicles are far more effective then electric vehicles, and they last longer too. I would recommend you stop making things up and start reading the facts about hybrid vehicles (which are incredibly effective vehicles, and are faster then electric cars). For anyone, hybrid vehilces are the ideal, and Toyota basically has it down with its hybrid line (especially the Toyota Prius which gets 42/65MPG).

You can even reverse engineer hybrids to get even higher then that (some estimates say from 80-100MPG).

Please also go through supply/demand and see why your reasoning is not entirely accurate.

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actually a rudimentary understand of supply/demand might lead you to think that that's always true, but you're arguing with an econ major here. the laws of supply and demand is not always an upward curve. Economy of scale is a factor that can shift the supply curve to the right and thus puts a downward pressure on price. The overhead cost of running a power plant is always constant, and is distributed into each unit of consumption. If the power plant produce twice the amount of energy, the overhead/unit cost will be half as expensive. In which case, an increase in demand would in fact result in a lower per unit cost.

and as I've said, there is not need to use energy from the power plant. Tesla will help its buyers set up a solar charging station at home, so no use of petroleum derived energy to drive the car, so in that sense, it beats the hybrid.

as far as the hybrid being faster. who cares, the Tesla Roadster can go 0-60 in 4 seconds, and has a top speed of 130, which is more than any one needs. What's the stats for speed on the Prius anyway?

and I'd like to see that research on hybrid lasting longer. neither cars have been around for more than 10 years, so I don't think anyone knows. so provide some back up stats on that if you please.

without an internal combustion engine, electric cars are cleaner and requires less maintenance. I'm not making this up. Previous owners of the EV will tell you as much.

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