The World Beyond BetterMost > Women Today
Tale of a 19th-century abortion provider
milomorris:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on June 06, 2009, 06:44:10 pm ---I believe that every woman has a right to decide what goes on with her own body,and that no politician or husband or fiance or boyfriend has a right to change that decision about whether or not to bring a life into this world.
--- End quote ---
I'm with you up until you get to the point of excluding the baby's father. No way. Not unless he is estranged from the wife, or impregnated her against her will. He has just as much right to decide what to do with that child as she does. And in many, many cases, couples (married or not) make that decision together.
milomorris:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on June 06, 2009, 07:48:49 pm ---I did indeed mean "unfettered", as Crayons indicated.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for clarifying. Then I agree with you.
milomorris:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on June 06, 2009, 07:56:11 pm ---I guess this is going OT, so maybe I should refrain, but - how do you distinguish the two?
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Its actually pretty easy to spot. And one of the few things I actually applaud Bill Clinton for is making it harder for people to stay on the welfare rolls. Its really about means-testing, and following up on people via social workers. Certain programs expire annually. Recipients are welcome apply for continuing coverage. As long as they still meet the requirements, they can get it. But people out-and-out lie about their circumstances in some cases. Back in the 70s it was kind of a joke, but some women would borrow neighbor's kids when the social worker was coming for a home visit.
But what tells the tale of the welfare queen/king better than anyone else is the men and women themselves. You can't imagine the attitudes I grew up around in the ghetto back in the day. "I ain't workin' for da man as long as da government will pay me to stay home;" "If I get a job, I'll loose my food stamps;" on, and on, and on.
Mandy21:
--- Quote from: milomorris on June 06, 2009, 07:56:44 pm ---I'm with you up until you get to the point of excluding the baby's father. No way. Not unless he is estranged from the wife, or impregnated her against her will. He has just as much right to decide what to do with that child as she does. And in many, many cases, couples (married or not) make that decision together.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for your thoughts, milomorris. As I said, this has turned into a very heated discussion.
Perhaps I phrased myself poorly. When I had my abortion, my boyfriend and I discussed it at length. He had previously borne two children -- one of them given to adoption, one of them born to a married girlfriend he no longer saw, and then this one which would have been borne out of wedlock and just a few days after we had broken up, for what we thought was for good. I went on a rather wild rampage, drinking myself silly and taking migraine medication that would definitely not contribute to the health of a fetus. But at the time, I had no clue I might have been pregnant. I was on the pill and taking it just as the doctor prescribed. I only found out later that if you vomit sometimes, for whatever reason, the birth control pills become completely ineffective. I learned this when the nurse from my ultrasound said the word "viable" to me. I'd never heard the word before and had to ask her to explain. She said the life inside of me was "10 week's viable". Despite the fact that we were broken up, I did get hold of him immediately, saw him in person, told him the state I was in and how far along I was, and what my choice was, considering my/our circumstances, and asked him his opinion. He agreed with me, and took me to the abortionist a few days later. We were both torn up to pieces, but looking back, considering I was making next-to-no money, he wasn't my boyfriend at the time, he was living with his mom, and the very strong recommendation from my doctor that I not bring this child into the world, that's what I did. My girl lost her life, AT MY CHOICE, on Dec 27, 1988. She'd be 20 now, and there's not a day that goes by that I don't think of what she could have been to me and to herself and to this world.
It's NOT a simple choice. Terminating a life -- whether it's a fetus or a dying parent or anyone else -- is the hardest choice anyone ever makes.
But I chose, and I'll also never stop being thankful that I live in a state and a country where a woman can choose. I'm fairly sure I'm a bit too old to get pregnant again, but if I did, I'd be sure I lived in a country that let me make my/our choice.
Again, no offense for your opinion, Shasta, and I hope I made myself clearer, milomorris. I just have mine as well, hope you don't hold it against me.
milomorris:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on June 06, 2009, 08:48:23 pm ---and I hope I made myself clearer, milomorris.
--- End quote ---
Yes. I'm happy to hear that you two handled the situation with the maturity and gravity it deserved.
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