The World Beyond BetterMost > Women Today
Tale of a 19th-century abortion provider
Kelda:
I'm myself not totally comfortable with the idea of abortion - although I'm not sure how I;d react if I was in the situation.
I personally, don;t think I coud do it - but that's me.
I would say I am pro-choice becasue there is so many sceanarios where the choice is deserved, whether that be rape, disability of the child, or whatever.
What I do not agree with is women using abortion as a form of contraception. Too lazy to take precautions and think thats the easy way out.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: milomorris on June 07, 2009, 05:39:31 pm ---And likewise a woman has to get used to the idea that if she has sex with a man, she may get pregnant. But I do not believe that child support should necessarily be compulsory. There are so many permutations. What if the man want to get married, but she does not? Is he still liable for child support? And I still say that if the woman retains the right to carry to term, but the man wants an abortion, the woman should shoulder the responsibility for raising the child. She is, after all, making a unilateral decision to become a parent...in spite of the father's wishes.
--- End quote ---
Because it's still his child. She didn't get pregnant by herself. The child needs care - why should it suffer just because one parent doesn't want to take responsibility for his own actions?
Child support isn't about funding a mother's lifestyle, it's about supporting a child.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: milomorris on June 07, 2009, 05:43:06 pm ---Precautions are a two way street. And women do lie sometimes about their use of birth control. Both parties bear equal weight when it comes to conception. Just because the woman makes the ultimate choice as to whether or not to carry to term, does not mean that the man is not allowed to disagree with that, nor should be held responsible for the outcome of a decision that she made.
--- End quote ---
Yes, some women do lie, hence the need for men to not take any claim at face value and to take their own precautions. If they don't, then they have an equal responsibility in whatever happens - whether abortion or bringing a child into this world.
Big responsibility isn't it? Guess men need to think more before whipping it out of their pants and not worrying about birth control.
Kelda:
--- Quote from: milomorris on June 07, 2009, 03:35:37 pm ---Right. Maybe I wasn't clear. If the woman aborts the baby that the man wanted, she should compensate him. This is similar to suing someone in civil court for a wrongful death.
I get that part, but why should he have to pay to help raise a child that he didn't want. The woman who has the baby (against the man's wishes), and also gets child support, is literally having her cake and eating it too.
--- End quote ---
But surely if the woman is made to have the baby the man then should:
a) compensate the woman for making her go through months of unwanted pregnancy.
b) compensate the woman for having to deal with the child post birth.
milomorris:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on June 07, 2009, 06:21:42 pm ---Because it's still his child. She didn't get pregnant by herself. The child needs care - why should it suffer just because one parent doesn't want to take responsibility for his own actions?
--- End quote ---
I'm not talking about absolving men of their responsibilities to their children. I'm talking about a man and a woman coming to a mutually beneficial arrangement regarding family planning. If she wants the child and he wants an abortion, he can't force her to have one. But to then deliver the child, and turn around and demand that the man pay child support is selfish and greedy. More to the point of this conversation, it takes away the man's choices, while leaving the woman's choices 100% intact.
The way I see it, leving the man's finances out of a situation like that is a win-win. The woman gets her baby, and the man keeps his money. He should be able to go to family court, state his case, and let the court decide whether or not child support should be waived.
On the flip side of the coin, when the woman wants to abort, but the man wants the child, I think either civil or family court should make itself available to address the issue of compensation due the father for the loss of his child. While a child cannot be replaced by the court, they can certainly compensate the man for his investment (time, money, etc.) in the relationship, as well as for the emotional trauma of losing the child that he helped to create.
The man gets compensation, and the woman get to make her choice. Again, its a win-win.
--- Quote from: delalluvia on June 07, 2009, 06:21:42 pm ---Child support isn't about funding a mother's lifestyle, it's about supporting a child.
--- End quote ---
Riiiiiight. And people use the company cell phone only for business calls. In spirit I agree. In practice, things are quite different.
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