The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
I Love You, Man (as a Friend) - NYT Article on gay/straight male friendships
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: milomorris on July 05, 2009, 12:17:36 pm ---Gatherings of straight men are not completely devoid of communication. Its just that they don't sit there blabbering on and on about a topic. The converstaion tends to be more direct and to the point. And yes, depending on what's on the TV at the bar, there will be long stretches where nobody says anything.
Its not a matter of women and some gay men being willing/able to communicate, and straight men and some gay men not being willing/able to communicate. Its about a difference in the approaches of the two groups when it comes to social interaction.
--- End quote ---
Social interaction is communication. The bar scenario is a common complaint. If you go to a bar and spend long stretches not saying anything and watching TV, why not just stay home?
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: JudgeHolden on July 05, 2009, 01:17:57 pm ---This just points to a fundamental difference between men and women. The POINT is sharing good times. To a woman, it might look like wasted time because it did not involve much verbal interaction or exchanges of deep thoughts, but to a dude, that is not necessary because your buddy is there spending time with you.
--- End quote ---
I suppose. I guess people have different ideas of "sharing'. In this scenario, if you are sitting at a bar not saying anything and watching TV, then I guess ANYone sitting next to you could be 'sharing' that moment with you. They don't even have to be a friend.
--- Quote ---Theres a lot that does get exchanged but its just not explicit. Guys do stuff together, women get together and talk, and theres the difference between male and female gatherings.
Thats not to say guys dont ever have deep conversations, but nowhere with the frequency that woman do, it that tenbds to be a "special Occasion" with a guy you have known for a long time and trust, not the everyday thing that it is with women.
--- End quote ---
I guess, but sadly, it does say a lot that straight men invariably call their SO their 'best friends' because they are unable to communicate deeper feelings with their male friends. Therefore it seems to me that a lot of what men 'share' isn't as close or as meaningful as they say it is.
milomorris:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on July 05, 2009, 01:28:31 pm ---I guess, but sadly, it does say a lot that straight men invariably call their SO their 'best friends' because they are unable to communicate deeper feelings with their male friends. Therefore it seems to me that a lot of what men 'share' isn't as close or as meaningful as they say it is.
--- End quote ---
I don't know of any straight guys that call their significant others "best friends." They usually go with "girlfriend," "woman," or some such.
As for the bolded part, this is a myth. Men communicate on a male scale. Part of that is an economy of language. You get the rest from inflection, facial expression, and body language. Its all there, and just as deep as with women. It just doesn't all come out of the mouth.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: milomorris on July 05, 2009, 01:36:10 pm ---I don't know of any straight guys that call their significant others "best friends." They usually go with "girlfriend," "woman," or some such.
--- End quote ---
They don't refer to their SOs as their best friends, but based on research done by marriage/relationship counselors, that's what they are.
--- Quote ---As for the bolded part, this is a myth. Men communicate on a male scale. Part of that is an economy of language. You get the rest from inflection, facial expression, and body language. Its all there, and just as deep as with women. It just doesn't all come out of the mouth.
--- End quote ---
It's not a myth, otherwise so many divorced men wouldn't need therapy. It's not that the men are incapable of it, it's just that they don't do it due to the current attitude of many straight males of maintaining face, not showing emotion or weakness to their friends/co-workers etc., which is what devastating blows of divorce, infidelity, etc., can generate.
milomorris:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on July 05, 2009, 07:47:34 pm ---It's not a myth, otherwise so many divorced men wouldn't need therapy. It's not that the men are incapable of it, it's just that they don't do it due to the current attitude of many straight males of maintaining face, not showing emotion or weakness to their friends/co-workers etc., which is what devastating blows of divorce, infidelity, etc., can generate.
--- End quote ---
People who let all their emotions out in the most expressive ways possible need therapy just as much as those who are "bottled up." I know this for a fact. I work with opera singers, dancers, actors...people who express themselves for a living. And they are just as fucked up as the quiet guys.
Perhaps we don't always meet female expectations of emotional expression. But that does not mean that we are not expressing. If one knows what to look for, and when to look, one will see it all there.
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