The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
Willie Nelson's Lost Highway
milomorris:
--- Quote from: garycottle on November 10, 2009, 09:46:44 am ---And what I meant was that men are restrained in their affection for one another out of fear of being perceived as gay.
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What is it you think they are restraining? What is being held back?
--- Quote from: garycottle on November 10, 2009, 09:46:44 am ---And just because you're a man does not make you particularly insightful about anything, even in regards to what it's like being a man. Some people are just dim and unobservant.
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I don't understand how you can dismiss the intrinsic understanding of someone who sits in the group. Yes, there may be elements that are best observed from outside the group, but that doesn't negate what the group members know about themselves. All the opera critic knows is what he sees on the stage. He has no idea what's going on in the pit, or backstage.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: milomorris on November 10, 2009, 10:01:55 am ---What is it you think they are restraining? What is being held back?
I don't understand how you can dismiss the intrinsic understanding of someone who sits in the group. Yes, there may be elements that are best observed from outside the group, but that doesn't negate what the group members know about themselves. All the opera critic knows is what he sees on the stage. He has no idea what's going on in the pit, or backstage.
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This post is funny, because it contains its own internal contradictions. That is, perhaps you don't understand what straight men might be holding back because you don't sit in their group.
I agree that being a group member gives one special insight into other members' behavior. But your group distinctions are simplistic. We aren't just either men or women, black or white, opera singers or critics. We all belong to lots of groups. Depending on the situation, I might have much more in common with -- and better insight into the behavior of -- a gay black man with whom I share geography, class, personality, profession or other characteristics than I do with a straight white woman with whom I have less in common.
Which shared characteristics are most important in determining mutual understanding in any given situation varies, depending on the individuals and the circumstances.
Clyde-B:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on November 10, 2009, 08:04:01 am ---"It's a spoof" is an old dodge.
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It is the quintessential male dodge. OK, so I broke your arm and blacked your eyes and knocked out three teeth, It don't mean nothin', we was just funnin'.
Clyde-B:
--- Quote from: milomorris on November 10, 2009, 09:00:00 am ---Part of that sharing is understanding that we come to the topic from different angles. Women understand men from a different angle, and with a different kind of understanding than do other men. We see this played out over and over again in music, literature, and the media in general. There have been a gazillion popular magazine articles titled along the lines of "What He Really Wants" or "What She Really Wants." Its commonly understood that men and women lack the insider's view of each other.
So when I explain the affection that I see between two guys who, for example, greet each other with a bear hug and a thump on the back, I'm doing so from an insider's perspective. When someone from the outside tells me that men aren't affectionate, I wonder why I see it, but they don't.
I can enjoy watching a game of cricket, even though I have no clue what is going on in the field.
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Thirty years ago, two guys greeting each other with a bear hug and a thump on the back was looked on with suspicion. It's only come back into style since the restrictions on homosexuality have relaxed.
Lynne:
Clarissa, I'd love it if you could provide an example. I've exhausted most of my knowledge and find symbolism and metaphor but not double entendre. Admittedly, I don't listen to new country.
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