Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
The true reason
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on August 10, 2006, 06:20:11 pm ---Maybe she should have called it "emotional erotica." ;)
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That works. Though there's a physical aspect to it, too ... ;)
dly64:
I thought the article was very good. And, after reading the quote in context, I think it's apropos.
ednbarby:
Oopsie. She. Sorry about that.
I just read the whole article. Twice. And I still don't think she gets it. I don't think she misses it completely, either. But it's like she's missing the target but hitting the (very large) tree.
The emoting Jack and Ennis do, first of all, is practically never in front of one another - the exceptions being "Sometimes I miss you so much..." and Ennis' breakdown at the lake. So if anything, we straight women are only reminded of our own screwed-up relationships with certain straight men and how those bastards never *really* talked to us, either.
How can we see anything we long for in the way they don't talk or emote to one another? Sure, we see what we long for in their passion and deep love for each other in the infamous tent, reunion, and flashback scenes. But gay men must experience that on the same or similar level, too. And she's not talking about that - she's talking about Ennis' vomiting and Jack's crying. That they do *alone.*
To me, she seems to be saying that we straight women love the film because it shows men feeling things for each other that we wished they felt (and showed) for us. I just think that's crap. (Now, if she were saying it's because it shows two *particular* men feeling things for each other that we wish one or both of them would feel specifically for us, that'd be another story. ;))
Seriously, first of all, she seems to have missed the fact that these guys almost never show what they're feeling to each other directly. What good is our guys feeling that amount of passion for us if they almost never tell us about it or show it to us? Yeah. I *so want* to go through that again. ::)
Yes, I'm on a hair-trigger about such things lately, I know, but I can't help but see her view as being more than a little biased. I mean, why should this movie be any more of a draw for straight women in general than any other beautiful love story ever filmed? I honestly don't think it is. If it were, every red-blooded woman we all know who usually likes such stories would have seen it by now. And every one who has would be a Brokie.
serious crayons:
OK, now that the Meghan Daum article is getting all controversial, I had to go back and read it. I've read it before, but not for months.
First of all, remember that she wrote this in January, not long after the movie came out. She had apparently seen it only once. And her objective was not to thoroughly analyze Jack and Ennis to see if they're good boyfriend material. As far as I can tell, what she was trying to do is explain why a movie that many people expected to appeal mainly to gay men could be equally appealing to women.
--- Quote from: ednbarby on August 10, 2006, 09:57:06 pm ---The emoting Jack and Ennis do, first of all, is practically never in front of one another - the exceptions being "Sometimes I miss you so much..." and Ennis' breakdown at the lake. So if anything, we straight women are only reminded of our own screwed-up relationships with certain straight men and how those bastards never *really* talked to us, either.
--- End quote ---
Well, I'd add the reunion and TS2, but that's beside the point. I agree with you, Barb, that they don't communicate their feelings well to each other.
But I don't think Meghan Daum is saying they do, necessarily. Her main point, as I understand it, is that they show romantic emotions period, when we rarely see straight male movie characters or maybe even real-life men do that.
IMO, she's right. How many straight men in movies can you name who, after a fight with their girlfriend, stagger into an alley and collapse in despair? I can count the number on zero fingers. Crying as they drive away from a girlfriend who has rejected them? I might have to use a few fingers, but probably not a whole hand. Waiting all day with their face pressed against the window for their girlfriend to show up? I've still got plenty of leftover fingers.
In real life, men undoubtedly do those things from time to time, but they're not really known for it. So yeah, here Daum is using a cliche. But it's a cliche with a grain of truth. I think women do, as a general rule, get more emotional about their relationships. Here, Jack and Ennis are getting emotional about their romantic relationship -- they're not expressing it to each other, but they're expressing it to the audience.
--- Quote --- (Now, if she were saying it's because it shows two *particular* men feeling things for each other that we wish one or both of them would feel specifically for us, that'd be another story. ;))
--- End quote ---
Well, I'd say she does kind of hint at that, too. ;)
--- Quote ---I can't help but see her view as being more than a little biased. I mean, why should this movie be any more of a draw for straight women in general than any other beautiful love story ever filmed? I honestly don't think it is.
--- End quote ---
It may not actually be more of a draw for straight women than any other love story -- obviously many more straight women saw "Titanic." And for some straight women, BBM would be harder to like for an number of reasons. But I don't think Daum was going so far as to say straight women like it more than any other movie; I think she was simply explaining why straight women like it at all.
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, it should be more of a draw, becaue it's much better than any other love story I've ever seen. Not only because of this factor, but it's one of the reasons. So I guess my view is more than a little biased, too. But then, we already knew that! ;)
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 10, 2006, 11:16:49 pm ---OK, now that the Meghan Daum article is getting all controversial, I had to go back and read it. I've read it before, but not for months.
First of all, remember that she wrote this in January, not long after the movie came out. She had apparently seen it only once. And her objective was not to thoroughly analyze Jack and Ennis to see if they're good boyfriend material. As far as I can tell, what she was trying to do is explain why a movie that many people expected to appeal mainly to gay men could be equally appealing to women.
Well, I'd add the reunion and TS2, but that's beside the point. I agree with you, Barb, that they don't communicate their feelings well to each other.
But I don't think Meghan Daum is saying they do, necessarily. Her main point, as I understand it, is that they show romantic emotions period, when we rarely see straight male movie characters or maybe even real-life men do that.
IMO, she's right. How many straight men in movies can you name who, after a fight with their girlfriend, stagger into an alley and collapse in despair? I can count the number on zero fingers. Crying as they drive away from a girlfriend who has rejected them? I might have to use a few fingers, but probably not a whole hand. Waiting all day with their face pressed against the window for their girlfriend to show up? I've still got plenty of leftover fingers.
--- End quote ---
I understand her point about men. But I think she misses the point of the movie. Ennis collapses in an alley not only because he's overwhelmed with romantic feelings, but because he's been forced most of his life to repress romantic feelings so far down in himself that it actually affects his physical characteristics. Ennis waits with his face pressed to a window all day for his lover not only because he wants him so much, but because he's been in a passionless, loveless marriage for four years because society and he himself convinced himself he had to.
I do understand her point. But I think she's trivializing the movie and its impact by making it.
And I have seen movies where straight male characters act that romantic. To name a few: Casablanca, Gone With the Wind, The English Patient, Shakespeare in Love, An Officer and a Gentelman, Pretty Woman, Say Anything, Witness, Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre, Emma, The Graduate, ..., I could go on all day. The kicker is that they're *allowed* to act that romantic - audiences cheer when they do. I'm just saying there is more of a universal appeal to this movie than one that is just for gay men and straight women. I think anyone open-minded enough to see it can help but be drawn in a) by the storytelling and b) by the universal truths about what the damage denial does. I guess it just irritated me that she thought the answer was so black and white when we all know there's so much more to it than that.
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