Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
The true reason
Aussie Chris:
Could I ask a dumb question? I mean absolutely no offense and I'm certainly not annoyed, but what the hell is "emotional erotica" supposed to mean exactly??? I've resisted the urge to object to the chick-flick connotation (I see that as being beneath BBM in the first place) or that women are supposed to "get" something out of it differently than men, likewise gay & straight. In my book emotions & erotica go together as well as army & intelligence. So is erotica in this context meant to be taken as stimulus?? It doesn't seem right if it is because erotica does mean sexual stimulus, and putting emotional in front of it doesn't change that. Or am I taking a bit of fun too literally here?
serious crayons:
I don't know if you've read the past few pages of this thread, Chris, or the essay from the LA Times I posted a link to which triggered the discussion. Those might be helpful in answering your question. Briefly, the essay, written back in early January, was an attempt to explain one reason women like BBM when apparently, at that time, conventional wisdom held that it would appeal mainly to gay men. The writer, Meghan Daum, a woman, speculated that one reason might be that Jack and Ennis show a lot of emotion, whereas men in movies generally don't and men in real life stereotypically don't. The last sentence used the term "emotional pornography," which some people here found inappropriate, so somebody else suggested "emotional erotica" as an alternative.
But
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on August 14, 2006, 04:30:50 am --- In my book emotions & erotica go together as well as army & intelligence.
--- End quote ---
Hunh?! Are you saying they're a contradiction in terms? In my book they're inseparable.
(And actually, the involvement of emotions might be one handy way to distinguish erotica from pornography.)
Momof2:
When I first saw the movie and every time since, never have I thought, "Gee, it was nice to see two men showing affection." I thought, Oh my God. What an absolutely beautiful love story and then I thought I was going to be sick. As I have said before and I know others have expressed, I was awe struck at the magnitude of their love and the tragedy of it.
I know Ennis knows he loved Jack. Even though it is nice to hear those three words, you can know it without hearing it. I know as a straight woman, sometimes my husband does not say he loves me as much as I would like to hear but I know without question he does. I would think that a man would have hard time saying I love you no matter what relationship they are in. Are "gay" men supposed to be more "in touch" with their feelings than straight. I found it sad that the TWO of them never said I love you, but not unbelievable. And is the case most of the time, we realize the importance of things when it is to late to do anything about it.
Emotion and erotica go hand in hand with me. How can you have one with out the other. It is different than a one night stand which is neither. That is just raw lust???
dly64:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on August 14, 2006, 04:30:50 am ---In my book emotions & erotica go together as well as army & intelligence. So is erotica in this context meant to be taken as stimulus?? It doesn't seem right if it is because erotica does mean sexual stimulus, and putting emotional in front of it doesn't change that. Or am I taking a bit of fun too literally here?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 14, 2006, 08:46:45 am ---Hunh?! Are you saying they're a contradiction in terms? In my book they're inseparable.
--- End quote ---
Sorry … I have to agree with Chris on this one. Although I may be splitting hairs … as I have been known to do …. “erotica” is different than “erotic.” Erotica is a literary or artistic work that depicts something “erotic.” “Erotic” is strongly marked or affected by sexual desire. To use the term “erotica” cheapens Jack and Ennis’ relationship (IMO).
--- Quote from: Mikaela on August 13, 2006, 05:46:03 am ---I've always believed they both know and acknowledge to themselves they love the other, early on in their story, - Ennis too, even if he didn't use the word. In the midst of all their struggles they both knew what they had.
All the tragedy and missed opportunities and twarthed hopes and dreams in the film serves to put the love story in high relief, make it stand out all the clearer and more beautiful. Ennis and Jack had their love for each other tested and tried like few others, and they both had to make significant personal sacrifices, and still the love held. And even if they did not have much time together, and the entirely happy times were few, - they *did* have them. Moments of perfect happiness and passionate love with the one person they were destined to be with in all the world. What speaks to me especially is the very fact that what they had was so deeply real and true and pure despite all the pain and grief and loss, all the adversity, dangers, obstacles, difficulties, misunderstandings and setbacks. Perhaps you won't even ever be able to *experience* that level of truth and intense beauty in your life unless you also go through those darkest of places and the most difficult of times. That speaks to me on a *very* personal level these days.
--- End quote ---
Mikaela – as usual, you have expressed yourself beautifully. You are right …. very few of us will ever experience something this intense and pure. I think an important point you make is that this was not a “pie in the sky” depiction of love. It was difficult, it was painful. But it was also passionate and loving.
I am usually a romantic and an optimist. Somehow, this film has made me a realist. What I mean is that this film in no way, shape or form pretends that their love and relationship is some type of utopia. On the contrary … it shows what love can cost.
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 14, 2006, 08:46:45 am ---Hunh?! Are you saying they're a contradiction in terms? In my book they're inseparable.
(And actually, the involvement of emotions might be one handy way to distinguish erotica from pornography.)
--- End quote ---
Hmmm, once again I think I'm going to rush in where angels fear to tread. Actually I think erotica is a term that people use when they're talking about pornography but don't want to use that word. Basically, erotica = [artistic] pornography (and artistic is a very subjective term). Sure you can use pornography in a derogatory way to mean sleaze, but the words pornography and erotica both relate to text and/or images that elicit sexual desire, whether it is done tastefully or not.
So back to emotional erotica. I still don't understand. Is this supposed to be the emotions of sexual desire, or the stimulation of sexual emotions? Either way, I have trouble accepting these two words together, but not because I think that sex has nothing to do with emotion (or at least should have). And without understanding this properly, I seriously have trouble associating Jack and Ennis' story with either pornography or erotica - that's offensive to me.
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