Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
Penthesilea:
Of course we see Marion crouch down in the shower. With her back to the wall/bath tub, her hand streched out in defense. Right? Is she crouched down then?
It's really loooong ago I saw it :laugh:
TOoP/Bruce:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on October 03, 2007, 01:53:32 pm ---Of course we see Marion crouch down in the shower. With her back to the wall/bath tub, her hand streched out in defense. Right? Is she crouched down then?
It's really loooong ago I saw it :laugh:
--- End quote ---
Since the stories are different it can be confusing to focus on how they are different. Here is what is similar about them.
In Psycho, Marion metaphorically tries to fix what she has done by working out the figures of what she has spent. She then crosses in in front of a mirror where she is partially reflected. She flushes the ripped up figures down the drain, steps into a cubicle, and is joined by another figure. She screams. After she falls dead, the camera closes in on her eye and lap/dissolves to the drain. The story of Marion Crane is not what Psycho will be about. Marion Crane is finished.
Compare this to Brokeback. Ennis metaphorically tries to fix what is happening between himself and Jack by fixing Jack's truck. As Jack leaves, we see Ennis in Jack's rear view mirror -- the equivalent of being reflected and going down the drain at the same time. Ennis steps into an alley and doubled over with cramps, and is also joined by another figure. He screams. As he doubles over, we hear "forgive us our trespasses" -- the audio equivalent of a lap dissolve as the story shifts to Ennis's wedding. Any promise of a future between Jack and Ennis, effectively goes down the drain here as we. The romance of Brokeback mountain is not what Brokeback will be about. The romantic promise of Brokeback is also finished.
Very different stories, but similarities can be found.
....
In Psycho, the "Adam's apple" shot is very pronounced as the camera goes below eye level and looks up at Norman's throat as the detective Arbogast questions him.
In Brokeback, the camera stays put, but Heath's head is cocked back at an awkward angle to expose his throat as he sits on the bed. Alma is working her "charms" with "no more loney places". The interesting feature of this awkward head tilt seems to be his exposed throat (the frontal lump on a man's throat is commonly referred to as the "Adam's apple").
TOoP/Bruce:
--- Quote from: TOoP/Bruce on October 03, 2007, 03:36:31 pm ---
--- End quote ---
Since the stories are very different it can be confusing to focus on the differences. Here is what is similar about them.
In Psycho, Marion metaphorically tries to fix what she has done by working out the figures of what she has spent. She then crosses in in front of a mirror where she is partially reflected. She flushes the ripped up figures down the drain, steps into a cubicle, and is joined by another figure. She screams. After she falls dead, the camera closes in on her eye and lap/dissolves to the drain. The story of Marion Crane is not what Psycho will be about. Marion Crane is finished.
Compare this to Brokeback. Ennis metaphorically tries to fix what is happening between himself and Jack by fixing Jack's truck. As Jack leaves, we see Ennis in Jack's rear view mirror -- the equivalent of being reflected and going down the drain at the same time. Ennis steps into an alley and doubled over with cramps, and is also joined by another figure. He screams. As he doubles over, we hear "forgive us our trespasses" -- the audio equivalent of a lap dissolve as the story shifts to Ennis's wedding. Any promise of a future between Jack and Ennis, effectively goes down the drain here as we. The romance of Brokeback mountain is not what Brokeback will be about. The romantic promise of Brokeback is also finished.
Very different stories, but similarities can be found.
....
In Psycho, the "Adam's apple" shot is very pronounced as the camera goes below eye level and looks up at Norman's throat as the detective Arbogast questions him.
In Brokeback, the camera stays put, but Heath's head is cocked back at an awkward angle to expose his throat as he sits on the bed. Alma is working her "charms" with "no more loney places". The interesting feature of this awkward head tilt seems to be his exposed throat (the frontal lump on a man's throat is commonly referred to as the "Adam's apple").
....
I don't know if Annie Proulx had any Hitchcock elements in mind when she wrote the short story, but many curious coincidences keep popping up:
One of the scenes that was cut from Brokeback was pulling a VW microbus out of a lake. This would also parallel a remarkably similar scene in Psycho - Marion's car being dredged from the swamp. Presumably, James Schamus wrote this scene and it was cut because it didn't work. Strange that it would also find a parallel a scene in Psycho.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: TOoP/Bruce on October 03, 2007, 03:36:31 pm ---Since the stories are very different it can be confusing to focus on the differences. Here is what is similar about them.
In Psycho, Marion metaphorically tries to fix what she has done by working out the figures of what she has spent. She then crosses in in front of a mirror where she is partially reflected. She flushes the ripped up figures down the drain, steps into a cubicle, and is joined by another figure. She screams. After she falls dead, the camera closes in on her eye and lap/dissolves to the drain. The story of Marion Crane is not what Psycho will be about. Marion Crane is finished.
Compare this to Brokeback. Ennis metaphorically tries to fix what is happening between himself and Jack by fixing Jack's truck. As Jack leaves, we see Ennis in Jack's rear view mirror -- the equivalent of being reflected and going down the drain at the same time. Ennis steps into an alley and doubled over with cramps, and is also joined by another figure. He screams. As he doubles over, we hear "forgive us our trespasses" -- the audio equivalent of a lap dissolve as the story shifts to Ennis's wedding. Any promise of a future between Jack and Ennis, effectively goes down the drain here as we. The romance of Brokeback mountain is not what Brokeback will be about. The romantic promise of Brokeback is also finished.
Very different stories, but similarities can be found.
--- End quote ---
Hm. Not sure how to answer with without sounding negatory to the whole point. Yes, if you dig long enough and deep enough, you can find similarities. But you could find similarities between BBM and other classics as well. That's why they are classics: they are pathbreaking on some level(s) and therefore have other artists (directors, actors, writers, etc.) follow their route, hopefully not only imitating, but taking one of those groundbreaking ideas and let their own creativity run wild with it.
I don't want to dismiss your idea as a whole, but my strongest demur is the fact that some of your examples come from Ang Lee and some are from Annie Proulx. It simply can't be a homage from Ang Lee towards Hitchcock that Alma is named just that, because it was Annie who named Ennis's wife.
--- Quote ---In Psycho, the "Adam's apple" shot is very pronounced as the camera goes below eye level and looks up at Norman's throat as the detective Arbogast questions him.
In Brokeback, the camera stays put, but Heath's head is cocked back at an awkward angle to expose his throat as he sits on the bed. Alma is working her "charms" with "no more loney places". The interesting feature of this awkward head tilt seems to be his exposed throat (the frontal lump on a man's throat is commonly referred to as the "Adam's apple").
--- End quote ---
It never struck me as awkward. I think it's natural, he's tired and exhausted (look at his posture and facial expression before Alma approaches him), his muscles ache, especially his neck, so he stretches and rolls it. So the head tilt doesn't seem awkward at all to me. But you are right with the exposure of his throat. It's noticeable. And I think Ang Lee did nothing in this movie without a reason.
Now if I only had the respective scene from Psycho fresh in my memory ::)
--- Quote ---I don't know if Annie Proulx had any Hitchcock elements in mind when she wrote the short story, but many curious coincidences keep popping up:
One of the scenes that was cut from Brokeback was pulling a VW microbus out of a lake. This would also parallel a remarkably similar scene in Psycho - Marion's car being dredged from the swamp. Presumably, James Schamus wrote this scene and it was cut because it didn't work. Strange that it would also find a parallel a scene in Psycho.
--- End quote ---
James Schamus is a third source of parallels between Psycho and BBM. Proulx, Lee and Schamus? To be honest, this sounds unlikely to me.
I think I have to watch Psycho again as soon as I get the opportunity. Some of your examples are truly intriguing (like I already said). I don't want to oppose your theory as a whole, but I can't buy it completely either.
TOoP/Bruce:
"Lust, Caution" is now out, and several critics are now remarking on its Hitchcock influences and themes, comparing it to Notorious, Suspicion, and a particular death scene from Torn Curtain.
It would be more surprising to me to find that "Number 17" was anything but a Hitchcock reference.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version