Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
What would you like Ang to comment on?
Penthesilea:
Ok, I take back everything I said. It is indeed "milk and water". I was plain wrong.
OMG. Milk and water make so much more sense than milk and honey. I always thought hunh? about this comment. Because milk and honey go together not well at the beginning, but after a while, when you stirr it, they go together very well and mingle completely. And Jack and Lureen sure did not go together well and mingled in the course of their relationship.
Lee:
Now I read you post a second time and it makes sense. The Jack=water symbolism is well discussed and I think we have a consesnus about that.
The connection between Lureen and milk you elaborated is not to be dimissed.
What happens when milk and water go together? The milk kinda fades. The colour gets more and more pale, the more water you insert. Just like Lureens hair gets more and more pale.
Gotta go now. Will be back on this later.
nakymaton:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Lee, the symbolism of Ang Lee's comment cracks me up. I mean -- here's this comment that Jake used as an example of how mysterious the direction could be, and it's been transformed into something that makes sense in this highly symbolic interpretation of BBM.
I dunno. I still think that the symbolism is far more fluid than implied by our discussions -- that there's consistency to the imagery, and that that makes it very effective on an emotional and intuitive level, but that the movie is not a patchwork quilt of symbols stitched together to make a Meaning.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on September 06, 2006, 12:28:18 pm ---I dunno. I still think that the symbolism is far more fluid than implied by our discussions -- that there's consistency to the imagery, and that that makes it very effective on an emotional and intuitive level, but that the movie is not a patchwork quilt of symbols stitched together to make a Meaning.
--- End quote ---
I agree with what I think you're saying. Most of those things we talk about do mean something -- I think a cigar is very rarely just a cigar. But often they're multiple or ambiguous or abstract meanings. I don't think each symbol necessarily means one specific thing that can be summarized in two or three words that, when combined with the other symbols, tells the whole story.
Or wait, maybe they do ...
OK, here's the summer on Brokeback, entirely in symbols (I left out a few repetitive ones for streamlining purposes):
Truck ... paper bag ... train ... binoculars ... watch ... skittish horse ... sheep ... water ... sawing/chopping ... more water ... kettle and coffee pot ... bear ... beans ... elk ... tent ... flattened harmonica ... more tent ... dead sheep ... naked laundry ... dead coyote ... more tent ... more binoculars ... Uncle Harold ... more tent ... mixed-up sheep ... snow.
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on September 06, 2006, 12:53:49 pm ---OK, here's the summer on Brokeback, entirely in symbols (I left out a few repetitive ones for streamlining purposes):
Truck ... paper bag ... train ... binoculars ... watch ... skittish horse ... sheep ... water ... sawing/chopping ... more water ... kettle and coffee pot ... bear ... beans ... elk ... tent ... flattened harmonica ... more tent ... dead sheep ... naked laundry ... dead coyote ... more tent ... more binoculars ... Uncle Harold ... more tent ... mixed-up sheep ... snow.
--- End quote ---
I forget... what symbolized mind-numbingly hot kissing again? ;)
I guess my feeling about the symbolism is... well, the movie does a great job of going straight to my heart, bypassing my brain. And the visual images play a role in that... but not the kind of very intellectual role that "symbolism" implies to me.
Or maybe I'm still grumpy because I hated high school English lit classes. ;)
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on September 06, 2006, 01:02:55 pm ---I forget... what symbolized mind-numbingly hot kissing again? ;)
--- End quote ---
That would be the drool. Oh wait -- that's MY drool. ;D
--- Quote ---I guess my feeling about the symbolism is... well, the movie does a great job of going straight to my heart, bypassing my brain. And the visual images play a role in that... but not the kind of very intellectual role that "symbolism" implies to me.
Or maybe I'm still grumpy because I hated high school English lit classes. ;)
--- End quote ---
Well, maybe I still love it because I loved high-school English, in fact used to be a college English lit major, and BBM has more symbolism than The Great Gatsby. ;)
The movie goes straight to my heart, too. It did the first time I saw it, even though back then the closest I came to understanding any symbols was suspecting that the dead sheep might stand for something and that Lureen probably wasn't just talking about dancing.
It wasn't until I got to imdb that I realized that snow and tents and fans and water and elk meant anything more than the obvious. (OK, so I was a college lit major who switched halfway through to journalism. ::))
Personally, I really enjoy the intellectual challenge and reward of analyzing the symbols. I don't think you need to do it to appreciate the movie. I don't even think you need to agree they're there in order to appreciate the movie (hell, I can think of people -- not you, Mel -- who routinely scoff at symbol interpretations and have been involved in these boards longer than I have). I don't think you have to know that "Jack = wind" and then notice the huge fan on Ennis' bed at the end in order to figure out how Ennis is feeling in that scene.
But for me it's fun, partly in a way that a crossword puzzle is fun, partly because it deepens my appreciation of the movie's brilliance, partly because it's interesting to see how great writers and directors handle symbols, partly because I find it fascinating and subtle and astounding. Noticing a new one that works is like finding a buried treasure. I would put noticing all the mirrors and echoes and bookends in the same category.
Still, however fun, it's almost like a sideline thing to my appreciation of the movie's emotional impact.
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