Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
getting hit hard by offhand revelations (story discussion)
Penthesilea:
My take on Ennis vague sense on getting shortchanged is also in regard to his daughters, but secondly in regard to money-issues.
He had to pay a lot of child support, ("how it's being broke all the time" he tells Jack [much]later). Alma was better off money-wise than Ennis. She married the Riverton grocer and they may not have been rich, but sure not near being broke at any time.
Doorbell is ringin. Gotta go
Front-Ranger:
Good point! I forgot about the literal meaning of shortchanged!!
dly64:
I don't know that Ennis' feeling shortchanged had anything to do with his daughters or Alma. The story really has Ennis less involved with his girls than does the film. IMO, it is Ennis' virility, his masculinity that has been "shortchanged". Ennis associated his masculinity in his ability to impregnate Alma (a visual sign of his virility). For example:
"In December Ennis married Alma Beers and had her pregnant by mid-January."
And then Alma emasculates Ennis ....
"Alma asked Ennis to use rubbers because she dreaded another pregnancy. He said no to that, said he would be happy to leave her alone if she didn't want any more kids. Under her breath she said, ‘I’d have ‘em if you’d support ‘em.’"
In a conversation with Jack, Ennis says that he “used a want a boy for a kid … but just got little girls.”
Then there’s the whole Thanksgiving fiasco. In this situation, it as if Ennis has been castrated. He is sitting in his ex-wife’s house while Alma is pregnant. These are two things that emasculate Ennis …. his inability to support his family and Alma impregnated by another man.
serious crayons:
All of the above make sense. But I'll have to say I find it hard to see Ennis as this macho man who feels threatened by whether his wife is impregnated or not.
In the scene where he says he'd be happy to leave her alone if she doesn't want no more of his kids, I read it as, "Thank god! Here's an excuse to get out of this." And in the conversation with Jack about sons vs. daughters, well, that's story vs. movie, but still I don't see that as necessarily a sign of machismo (I used to want a girl for a kid -- maybe because I am a girl -- but just got little boys, yet I'm really not THAT much of a girly-girl, and by the time they were born I was perfectly fine with it). In the Thanksgiving fiasco, I don't see Ennis as being castrated so much as going along just to be nice to his kids (not to be the "sad dad"). I see no sign that he is bothered by either his inability to support his family or Alma being impregnated by another man. He could have done either if he'd wanted to (taken the job at the electric company, had sex with Alma), but it appeared to me he didn't want to.
Here I am, as usual, dilligently defending Ennis. But really, that's really just how I see the movie!
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on September 30, 2006, 01:00:53 am ---All of the above make sense. But I'll have to say I find it hard to see Ennis as this macho man who feels threatened by whether his wife is impregnated or not.
In the scene where he says he'd be happy to leave her alone if she doesn't want no more of his kids, I read it as, "Thank god! Here's an excuse to get out of this." And in the conversation with Jack about sons vs. daughters, well, that's story vs. movie, but still I don't see that as necessarily a sign of machismo (I used to want a girl for a kid -- maybe because I am a girl -- but just got little boys, yet I'm really not THAT much of a girly-girl, and by the time they were born I was perfectly fine with it). In the Thanksgiving fiasco, I don't see Ennis as being castrated so much as going along just to be nice to his kids (not to be the "sad dad"). I see no sign that he is bothered by either his inability to support his family or Alma being impregnated by another man. He could have done either if he'd wanted to (taken the job at the electric company, had sex with Alma), but it appeared to me he didn't want to.
Here I am, as usual, dilligently defending Ennis. But really, that's really just how I see the movie!
--- End quote ---
One more time, I'm with you here, Katherine :)
In the scene where Ennis says he'd be happy to leave her alone, I think it's both. In that very moment, he is clearly not pleased by Alma's comment, his response is gruff (but Ennis being gruff is not *that* unusual anyway ;)). And no wonder: who wouldn't be angry at such comment from Alma?
But I also think, he was more relieved. I don't think Ennis ever tried to make sex with Alma again after this. In the movie, I think that this is implied by the fact that the very next scene is in the courtroom and we witness the divorce. Isn't there even a overcutting for a split-second with these two scenes?
And in the story are also clues regarding their sex life after this scene (and we're discussing the story here - yay, that means I'm on topic again ;)).
"...his propensitiy to roll to the wall and sleep as soon as he hit the bed..."
In general, I don't see Ennis as macho and feeleing threatened in his masculinity by Alma. And the story supports this. If Ennis had been feeling castrated and emasculated by Alma, there sure would have been a lot more of fighting. But the story says:
"A slow corrosion worked between Ennis and Alma, no real trouble, just widening water."
"...and when Alma Jr. was nine and Francine seven she said, what am I doing hangin around with him, divorced Ennis and married the Riverton grocer."
Now the circle closes to the sentence this discussion has begun with:
"He had no serious hard feelings...
...and he showed it was all right by taking Thanksgiving dinner with Alma and her grocer and the kids..."
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