Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
getting hit hard by offhand revelations (story discussion)
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: JakeTwist on December 02, 2006, 12:04:10 pm ---Is that why you did not reply to my post way back there, Mel, because I am a reader of fanfic? ???
--- End quote ---
No, I didn't reply because work and RL have been absolute hell this week, and I only managed to comment on one thing that caught my attention before the thread moved on and I forgot all about the other things that were mentioned.
(No, Jane, you're not on my long ignore list.)
(And the reason I'm not replying to mlewis right now is because my 3-year-old is singing a song about "can I hit the door," and I should be dealing with him.)
injest:
--- Quote from: mlewisusc on December 02, 2006, 12:42:11 am ---Given the amount of fanfiction written of the variety where Ennis gets to find someone, and live "happily ever after" in a melancholy way, kind of a bittersweet trance of a life Jack created for Ennis by Jack's "sacrificial" death, it's no wonder to me that so many people feel put off by the story after they fall in love with the film. From an optimistic perspective, the story sucks. It's a ringing, bitter condemnation of either or both of (a) society's homophobia; and/or (b) Ennis's own lack of strength. At the same time, it's a pretty amazing depiction of a deep, but flawed, love between two people, and a short, sharp, insightful analysis of human character. The point is, Ennis is screwed at the end of the story, emotionally, and I don't see any redemption coming his way.
The film, of course, gives us the hope that his experience with Jack will open him up to other loves in his life (e.g., attending Jr.'s wedding). I see my own prejudices, founded in the story, making my way into the interpretation of the end of the film. I certainly DON'T believe Film Ennis EVER finds another man, let alone a Jack replacement! I think he only gets bittersweet solace from the resolve not to let work get in the way of his loves anymore.
Sorry, now I'm the one going on about the film. Point is, the story is arguably unrelentingly bleak; the film gives some light to Ennis's tragedy.
BTW, I'm on my non-Mac machine here at work and I can't fiqure out how to spell check this thing! If someone could let me know how. .
--- End quote ---
ok going agin the grain here, guys. But yes the story is tragic and Ennis is a sad lonely being (by the standards we are applying from our own life) but Ennis was a ol country boy. In all the years he lived, he learned to cope, that was his life. Was it perfect? no, but he isn't as sad a figure to me. I know men like that...and half of them live that way because they know nothing else and WANT nothing else. It is hard for most of us to comprehend that. That there are people who are not worried about material goods or comfort. That live in the moment. I think Ennis was one of those people.
He had Jack. and never lost him, really. To love another person like that...how many of us would give anything to have had that in their life?
injest:
not that I don't think the story is tragic and horribly sad! I do...but I just don't have that feeling that Ennis was the pitiful loser some people see him as...
ok that doesn't sound right either! LOL
injest:
see what happens when you get into threads in the middle? LOL
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on December 01, 2006, 09:54:01 am ---
Jumping back here with you...
Whether Ennis likes to sleep with women: nobody has quoted the whole sentence yet:
I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain't nothin like this.
I have an odd comparison: I like green salad, but hell, it's nothing like pizza. Means I don't have anything against green salad, I don't mind eating it and enjoy it to a certain extent. I'm okay with it. But I'm totally enthusiastic about pizza. I love pizza. If I had to choose, there's no question I'd take the pizza over the salad.
In the end, I'm indifferent about green salad. I could do without it, but like it enough to eat it (because it's healthy).
I think Ennis was indifferent about sleeping with women. Could have done without it, but liked it enough to do it, because a) it's what was expected from him and b) it's not so lonley as his right hand.
I think b) is an important point to Ennis. And I don't talk exclusively about the sexual aspect, but also about the social aspect of having sex with another person: being close to someone, feeling the other person, touching and being touched. Being connected to another person - even if it is only for bodily aspects and even if it is not the right person - it's better than nothing anyway. Humans are social animals. Ennis was alone most of his life. He was able to stand it because he was less social and more of a loner than many people are. But this doesn't mean he had no social needs at all. Remember that pause, when Alma says "not so lonley like you were raised. You don't want it so lonley, do you?" (when she wants to move to Riverton). You can see her remark has struck a chord in him. Makes me sad every time.
About their truths and lies:
I don't think this sentence is (only) in regard to the afore conversation. I think it's meant more general: what they said to each other and more important what they didn't say. Their pretending. Pretending they weren't lovers.
In regard to the afore conversation Ennis could have been lying about putting the blocks to the waitress, or about her having problems he didn't want. I think he was the one with the problems (and maybe she didn't want them).
--- End quote ---
well, my view of that is just like a straight man will have sex with a gay man...gay men will have sex with straight women...
men are different from women and tend (generalizing here, guys) to divorce sex from feelings. So I don't see a problem, a discrepancy, with him having sex with Cassie or Alma...they offered...he was a man..to him it was sex...had nothing to do with feelings.
and as far as the part about loneliness (from the film) wanting something different for your kids is a far cry from wanting it for yourself right now. My husband wants DESPERATELY for my son to go to college...doesn't want to go himself...
we all live with regrets and wishs...Ennis was a realist. He knew the circumstances of his lfe and accepted them (doesn't mean he was a HAPPY or even contented....just accepted)
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: injest on December 02, 2006, 12:43:58 pm --- he isn't as sad a figure to me. I know men like that...and half of them live that way because they know nothing else and WANT nothing else. It is hard for most of us to comprehend that. That there are people who are not worried about material goods or comfort. That live in the moment. I think Ennis was one of those people.
--- End quote ---
Jess, maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. But to the extent I think Ennis is a sad figure, it has nothing to do with him being poor or having a spartan lifestyle. In fact, one of many things I love about BBM is that we AREN'T asked to feel sorry for people because they're uneducated or poor. In most movies, characters' economic status is central to our understanding of them, and if a character starts out poor, their path to achieving economic success constitutes at least part of the plot. Wealth = happy ending. BBM is refreshing because it DOESN'T do that.
No, I think Ennis is a sad figure because his own internal conflicts keep him from grabbing his one chance at happiness. Even when Jack is alive, Ennis can't fully enjoy the relationship because of his guilt and shame, and in the end he's left alone, grieving, knowing he blew it.
--- Quote ---He had Jack. and never lost him, really. To love another person like that...how many of us would give anything to have had that in their life?
--- End quote ---
Yes. But it's kind of a glass half full/half empty situation, right? Of course, he was lucky to have what he did with Jack (half full). But they didn't get to live happily ever after together (half empty).
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version