Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
getting hit hard by offhand revelations (story discussion)
injest:
--- Quote from: mlewisusc on November 30, 2006, 01:23:49 pm ---Sorry to keep jumping in and out today, gang. What do we do with the fact that Story Ennis says to Jack he likes doin it with women? Is that just Ennis's way of arguing to himself that he's not "queer"? Or is it about making babies - e.g., he stopped sleeping with Alma when she wanted him to use protection (see also Ennis's desire to have a son - was this discussed above or in another thread?). But then. like Alma thought, what Ennis liked to do didn't make too many babies. As to the story, I believe that Ennis is actually sleeping with "the waitress" later in the story, and I don't believe Jack when he says he's having an affair with a ranch foreman's wife. I realize, however, that my trust in Story Ennis could be misplaced, as noted by Ms. P herself when she writes that the sparks flew up "with their truths and lies . . . " plural of course.
So twice Ennis tells Jack that he (Ennis) sleeps with women, and once comments that he enjoys it. Is he in fact sleeping with the waitress? Does he actually enjoy it? If he's lying, is he trying to prove his heterosexuality to himself or to Jack? I imagine the answer would come back "both."
--- End quote ---
ok we don't know that they stopped having sex totally after that one scene...(from the movie)...and I know if I told my husband in the middle of proceedings to slap on a condom after x number of years?? He would be very very unhappy...the time for THAT discussion was NOT at that moment. Alma was looking for an excuse to NOT have sex...(anyone remember when the pill came out? Why wasn't Alma on it if she was so concerned?)
and as far as 'enjoying sex' with women....do straight men enjoy having oral sex from gay men? sex is sex...yes, I would say he enjoyed it...
at the point in the story where they are talking about the waitress and the foreman's wife I think they had so much unspoken baggage between them that they go thru a ritual of trying to keep things going smoothly...by this time they had it down pat. only when Jack is pushed too far by Ennis telling him that he will not meet him in August does the standard script get thrown out and truth is told....
mlewisusc:
OK, I logged on to leave a brief thought on another subject, and here's all these posts that need thinking!
Anyway, the USC-UCLA game is about to start, and I just want to drop off this thought; I'll come back ASAP.
Here's the thought. When Story Ennis and Jack split up right after Brokeback, the last line of the paragraph regarding Ennis having the dry heaves is as follows: " He felt about as bad as he ever had and it took a long time for the feeling to wear off." (emphasis mine).
This JUST hit me, hard (offhand revelations): Ennis lost his parents when he was between 11 years and 14 years old or so, right? And he must have felt pretty damn bad about that! But here, after Ms. P sets us up knowing he's an orphan and putting in our minds how bad losing both parents at such an age must feel, she hits us with the fact that his separation from Jack right after Brokeback felt worse! I think that's pretty incredible.
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: JakeTwist on November 29, 2006, 02:31:06 am ---Well here I will deposit my two cents: I have bolded part of your quote there Mel, that is the part I am addressing.... To say that is does not matter whether they kissed on the mountain or not during their summer together, I can't agree with that. I think it is the kissing that expresses the love. without the kissing, the unspoken love that Jack has for Ennis is not expressed. :o
I'm not saying that story Jack and Ennis did kiss that summer, I am just saying that whether they did or not does matter very much
--- End quote ---
You're right, of course. I said that it didn't matter for completely irrational reasons of my own. The first time I tried to leave this forum, back in June or July, I had come to the realization that the second tent scene not only was at odds with my interpretation of the story, but that my feelings about it had made me completely unable to watch or enjoy the movie. Convincing myself that it didn't matter was part of my attempt to make the movie something that I could watch and enjoy again.
But, you know, it didn't work.
To heck with it, anyway.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: mlewisusc on December 02, 2006, 12:42:11 am ---From an optimistic perspective, the story sucks. It's a ringing, bitter condemnation of either or both of (a) society's homophobia;
--- End quote ---
Well, Annie has said--somewhere--that the story is about rural homophobia.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: injest on December 02, 2006, 01:20:55 pm ---ok we don't know that they stopped having sex totally after that one scene...(from the movie)...and I know if I told my husband in the middle of proceedings to slap on a condom after x number of years?? He would be very very unhappy...the time for THAT discussion was NOT at that moment. Alma was looking for an excuse to NOT have sex...(anyone remember when the pill came out? Why wasn't Alma on it if she was so concerned?)
--- End quote ---
I've wondered about that, too. The pill came out in the early 1960s. My guess would be they simply couldn't afford it.
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