The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
On Diamonds
Lynne:
For the past two and half years, I have taken public transportation whenever possible and only rented a vehicle when it was more-or-less necessary.
I recycle and am conscientious of my food packaging and its origins.
I think I'm doing my part, and I am always on the lookout for other ways to reduce my own carbon footprint on the planet.
Luvlylittlewing:
--- Quote from: Lynne on January 18, 2010, 01:31:19 am ---We're seeing AVATAR this week, and although I think I know what it's about, I've not done any additional reading.
I agree that BLOOD DIAMOND was somewhat forumulaic, but nonetheless, I found it very powerful. I can't imagine myself ever owning another diamond and I keep entertaining thoughts of getting rid of the ones I have and making donations to an appropriate charity. :-\
I can't imagine ever wanting another diamond and being thrilled about it the way I was my first one, when I was innocent of how that market operates and exploits.
--- End quote ---
I have (had) lots of diamonds, not just because I love the way they look, but because they're my birthstone. These days I don't buy real diamonds because of the human rights issue, but also because CZs look better than actual diamonds, cost much less, are often set in real gold and no one can tell the difference between my real stones and my CZs.
Wearing diamonds has long been a status thing in the black community. I have a cousin who flashes her diamond rings wherever she goes. We loved to sit around and compare the size of the diamonds on our hands, in our ears, on our wrists. One of my uncles wore icy diamond rings on every other finger (I hate diamonds on men) but he took them off when he learned what his people go through to produce those stones. We're beginning to wake up, I believe.
Oh, I loved Avatar. I saw it twice and am considering seeing it in 3D. I love the spirit of the film and celebrate the message.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on January 18, 2010, 02:03:54 pm ---OK, but I don't see that. In a recession, no one is giving up their old cars to buy expensive hybrids.
--- End quote ---
Fewer people, but not no one:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/sales/
Reported US Hybrid Sales Up 42% in December, Down 7.5% for CY 2009; New Vehicle Market Share of 2.8% for CY 2009
January 07, 2010
Top: Reported sales of US hybrids in 2009 resulted in a 2.8% new vehicle market share. Bottom left: relative new vehicle share of hybrid and non-hybrid vehicles. Bottom right: Unit sales of hybrid and non-hybrid vehicles.
--- Quote ---People are buying cheap foods, local produce is limited in winter and why spend the gas to drive to a farmer's market when the grocery store is 5 blocks away?
--- End quote ---
From Wikipedia:
--- Quote ---In the U.S. and Canada, due in part to the increased interest in healthier foods, a greater desire to preserve local types of cultivars or livestock (some of which may not be up to commercial shipping or yield standards) and an increased understanding of the importance of maintaining small, sustainable farms on the fringe of urban environments, farmers' markets in the US have grown from 1,755 in 1994 to 4,385 in 2006 [2] to 5,274 in 2009. [3] In New York City, there are currently 44 markets in operation fitting this description. Scattered across all five boroughs, each market supports farmers as far away as New England, selling produce, meat, breads, pies, cheeses, honey, and shellfish for consumption and even allot some time for seasonal items, like orders for Thanksgiving turkeys and wreaths for Christmas. In the Los Angeles area, 88 farmers' markets exist, many of which support Hispanic and Asian fare.
New markets appear regularly, and existing markets—some well over a century old—are seeing renewed growth in both North America and Europe.
--- End quote ---
But also, you do know it is possible to make an effort, right there at the grocery store, to buy produce that's either local or more local, right? For instance, I can't find a huge amount of Minnesota produce at the grocery store in January, but I can distinguish between USA-produced and imported. And in warmer months, plenty of produce is labeled Minnesota-grown. And I would assume stores in warmer states offer some local produce throughout much of the year.
--- Quote --- If you are lucky enough to have a thermostat and central air (the majority of houses in my mother's neigthborhood, including hers do not)
--- End quote ---
In much of the country, the thermostat is there to control the heat, not air-conditioning. Here in Minnesota, you need one to stay alive. But people do lower them. And Sun-Belt dwellers who don't have central air ARE helping reduce oil consumption.
--- Quote ---people are turning them down to save money, not to protest human rights abuses.
--- End quote ---
Right. I would guess "protest human rights abuses" is not at the top of the list of reasons for most people's energy-reduction efforts. Doesn't mean it doesn't have that effect.
--- Quote ---Someone does buy the diamonds, but not enough to make much of an impact, IMO, in the fight against human rights violations.
--- End quote ---
Hunh? If the industry practices human-rights violations and then WHOEVER is supporting the industry stops buying its products -- whether it's 30 people or 30 million, doesn't matter; its whatever size market the industry relies on -- then the industry fails, and whatever human-rights violations were going on in that industry are no longer being committed by those people in that way. Or, if the industry realizes that is its problem, it will feel pressure to end the violations to avoid collapse.
Apparently you're saying the violations associated with the diamond industry do not constitute a significant enough percentage of the world's human-rights violations overall to bother about. But that's like saying, why boycott Company X for some objectionable practice -- there are a lot of other companies doing objectionable things, so even if Company X goes out of business it won't end objectionable practices overall? Why make any effort for the good if it doesn't solve all problems entirely? Obviously very few reform efforts have the effect of making everybody live happily ever after; they just chip away at some portion of a larger problem.
--- Quote --- I think it's an empty gesture for most people. The people who might make the biggest impact on blood diamonds are the buyers - not the retail buyers - the DeBeers people, the Cartier people. Have them cut off buying such gemstones and a difference might be made.
--- End quote ---
And you don't think the habits of the retail-buying public have anything to do with what DeBeers and Cartier do?? Are they just accumulating diamonds for their own use? That's like saying whether the public buys Priuses or not is immaterial -- it's what the dealerships do that has the most impact.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on January 18, 2010, 04:12:08 pm ---Fewer people, but not no one:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/sales/
Reported US Hybrid Sales Up 42% in December, Down 7.5% for CY 2009; New Vehicle Market Share of 2.8% for CY 2009
January 07, 2010
Top: Reported sales of US hybrids in 2009 resulted in a 2.8% new vehicle market share. Bottom left: relative new vehicle share of hybrid and non-hybrid vehicles. Bottom right: Unit sales of hybrid and non-hybrid vehicles.
--- End quote ---
Eh, stats and more stats. If one is sold in 2008 and two are sold in 2009, that's a 100% increase in sales! :P
--- Quote ---But also, you do know it is possible to make an effort, right there at the grocery store, to buy produce that's either local or more local, right? For instance, I can't find a huge amount of Minnesota produce at the grocery store in January, but I can distinguish between USA-produced and imported. And in warmer months, plenty of produce is labeled Minnesota-grown. And I would assume stores in warmer states offer some local produce throughout much of the year.
--- End quote ---
This is Texas, we grow cotton and sorghum here. Not very tasty. ;) Only in summer do you see the flourishing farmer's markets full of summer produce. And since we're so close to Mexico...fresh produce you can't buy local in winter here is available from there. [shrug]
--- Quote ---In much of the country, the thermostat is there to control the heat, not air-conditioning. Here in Minnesota, you need one to stay alive. But people do lower them. And Sun-Belt dwellers who don't have central air ARE helping reduce oil consumption.
--- End quote ---
Not really. In the Sunbelt, those who don't have central air, use gas heaters or electrical space heaters. In the summer, air-conditioning is a necessity. People die from heat exhaustion.
--- Quote ---Hunh? If the industry practices human-rights violations and then WHOEVER is supporting the industry stops buying its products -- whether it's 30 people or 30 million, doesn't matter; its whatever size market the industry relies on -- then the industry fails, and whatever human-rights violations were going on in that industry are no longer being committed by those people in that way. Or, if the industry realizes that is its problem, it will feel pressure to end the violations to avoid collapse.
Apparently you're saying the violations associated with the diamond industry do not constitute a significant enough percentage of the world's human-rights violations overall to bother about. But that's like saying, why boycott Company X for some objectionable practice -- there are a lot of other companies doing objectionable things, so even if Company X goes out of business it won't end objectionable practices overall? Why make any effort for the good if it doesn't solve all problems entirely? Obviously very few reform efforts have the effect of making everybody live happily ever after; they just chip away at some portion of a larger problem.
--- End quote ---
It is, but it's like ignoring the mountain and focusing on the molehill.
You dismissed my point about human rights violations being just as horrific with oil producing countries with
"Oh but we need that"
and then went on about diamonds. To me that's a big ??? That's a HUGE issue and a HUGE area we could be focusing on, but people are getting hung up about diamonds? A shiny rock that mostly the affluent buy and just as a luxury item?
Do you see any hip hop artists not buying diamonds? I think P-Diddy has several lovely pieces just encrusted with diamonds. Did you catch the awards show last night? Nice jewelry, eh?
Obviously not buying Blood Diamonds was just a passing issue with most people. Until the people who matter - the buyers - care about this issue, it doesn't make any difference to those who buy them.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on January 18, 2010, 04:42:24 pm ---Eh, stats and more stats. If one is sold in 2008 and two are sold in 2009, that's a 100% increase in sales! :P
--- End quote ---
Well, you said no one was buying them. Market figures -- yup, "stats and more stats" -- show that, in fact, more people are buying them. More than two, actually.
--- Quote --- And since we're so close to Mexico...fresh produce you can't buy local in winter here is available from there.
--- End quote ---
So there you go. If you're close to Mexico, then the produce isn't being shipped very far to get there, right? Mission accomplished.
--- Quote ---Not really. In the Sunbelt, those who don't have central air, use gas heaters or electrical space heaters. In the summer, air-conditioning is a necessity. People die from heat exhaustion.
--- End quote ---
Sure. I have lived in the Sun Belt (without central air, in fact) and am aware of this. But I don't see how it supports your point about how people should stop using oil. On the contrary, it sounds like, um, what I said about it being almost impossible to avoid using any oil.
--- Quote ---It is, but it's like ignoring the mountain and focusing on the molehill.
--- End quote ---
Nope. It's like realizing that if you dismiss any molehill-sized effort as pointless because it doesn't take down the whole mountain, then the mountain and all of the molehills are likely to stand undisturbed.
--- Quote ---You dismissed my point about human rights violations being just as horrific with oil producing countries with
"Oh but we need that"
--- End quote ---
Um, Del, you'd better go back and reread my earlier posts before you turn me into some kind of apologist for the oil industry, energy hogs and wars in the Middle East. What I actually said was that it's nearly impossible to use no oil, but that people most certainly are making many many laudable efforts to use less. I also pointed out that it's perfectly possible to use less oil AND buy fewer diamonds, simultaneously -- the two efforts are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I would guess that the people doing one are among those potentially most likely to also do the other.
--- Quote ---and then went on about diamonds
--- End quote ---
And while you're at it, you might want to check out the title of this thread.
--- Quote ---To me that's a big ??? That's a HUGE issue and a HUGE area we could be focusing on, but people are getting hung up about diamonds? A shiny rock that mostly the affluent buy and just as a luxury item?
Do you see any hip hop artists not buying diamonds? I think P-Diddy has several lovely pieces just encrusted with diamonds. Did you catch the awards show last night? Nice jewelry, eh?
--- End quote ---
OK, so what does that have to do with anything? On the one hand, you're saying reducing diamond purchases won't have enough effect on human-rights abuses overall. On the other hand, you're dragging in hip-hop artists -- whom you suggest couldn't possibly be aware of this controversy or participating in it, as if you'd surveyed the entire hip-hop community and found that there are none "not buying diamonds." And you imply that this supports some point. Which is, what, that nobody should bother reducing their diamond purchases because there will always be a ready supply of hip-hop artists to take their places? I'm just guessing; once again I am having trouble connecting your arguments to any overall point.
--- Quote --- not buying Blood Diamonds was just a passing issue with most people.
--- End quote ---
How do you know this? People don't buy diamonds very often. So they probably don't see the movie and then immediately purchase -- or not purchase -- a diamond. But three years later, they could be getting engaged, on a roll in their hip-hop career, or whatever, and thinking about buying a diamond. But then, remembering what they learned in that movie, reconsider their plans.
--- Quote --- Until the people who matter - the buyers - care about this issue, it doesn't make any difference to those who buy them.
--- End quote ---
Again, if fewer consumer buy diamonds, then the "people who matter -- the buyers" sure as hell DO care. How do you suppose industries operate? I work part time at Macy's. The store buys clothes and other products and then sells them to consumers. If consumers stop buying anything that Macy's sells, how do you suppose Macy's will be affected? If Macy's managers and buyers reassure themselves that it doesn't matter what retail customers do because they -- the buyers -- are the people "who matter," how long will Macy's stay in business?
I'm sorry, Del, but whatever it is you're trying to get at here, I'm not following.
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