Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Comparison between '03 to '05 screenplay: would we still be discussing this film
serious crayons:
I think "one shot thing" means it's just for the summer. I don't think it can mean "we did this once and it won't happen again," first because of the open-ended phrasing -- "this is a one-shot thing we've got going on here," not "we had going on there" -- and second because that would make the very next scene shot number two. Somebody -- maybe Ruthlessly? -- argued that by "one shot thing" Ennis means it's just the two of them together forever but, much as I'd like to believe that romantic scenario, it seems kind of far-fetched. (Unless maybe he -- Ruthlessly or whoever it was -- was talking about it meaning that at some deep symbolic level, which I guess is possible.)
--- Quote from: Daniel on September 26, 2006, 12:42:52 pm ---It is sad to think that the label "queer" was so negative to both of them, and they sought out some way to reduce the shame of that experience by seperating themselves further from that label.
--- End quote ---
Yes, it is sad. I'm guessing it's partly because they associate that label not just with having sex with men (although they -- Ennis in particular -- may be reluctant to embrace that part of it, too), but also with a whole set of characteristics they don't see themselves as having and which, in their world, would be an anathema.
Jeff Wrangler:
"Queer" as a label was negative--period--in 1963. There were no such things as "queer studies" then, and it was--what?--another twenty years before the American Psychological Association decided that homosexuality was not a pathology. "Queer" didn't just mean that you had sex with people of your same gender. It meant you were diseased in your mind--not just different, but downright sick. People feared "queer"--many, of course, still do. It's perfectly understandable to me that Ennis wouldn't want to be stigmatized by anybody as being diseased in his mind.
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on September 26, 2006, 01:07:10 pm ---I think "one shot thing" means it's just for the summer. I don't think it can mean "we did this once and it won't happen again," first because of the open-ended phrasing -- "this is a one-shot thing we've got going on here," not "we had going on there" -- and second because that would make the very next scene shot number two.
--- End quote ---
I always interpreted it as meaning "Look, this isn't going to happen again"... I still don't think that Ennis knew TS2 was going to happen until he got to his feet and headed for the tent (and even then, I think he was kind of scared, as well as probably excited, and wasn't sure what was going to happen). Yes, I know the verb tenses suggest otherwise, but you know... verb tenses are one of those things that tend to be a bit sloppy with rural dialects. (If somebody uses the subjective tense, they're faking the dialect. ;D )
But I can see how it could be interpreted the other way, too.
(I also think that movie-Ennis is more introverted than story-Ennis, and therefore his homophobia is expressed in different ways. I can't see movie-Ennis coming out and talking about the sex directly, even if he and Jack went off and started their little cow-and-calf operation.)
***
--- Quote ---I'm guessing it's partly because they associate that label not just with having sex with men (although they -- Ennis in particular -- may be reluctant to embrace that part of it, too), but also with a whole set of characteristics they don't see themselves as having and which, in their world, would be an anathema.
--- End quote ---
What were the connotations of "queer" in 1963? In 2006, I think of "queer" as implying a certain sort of rebelliousness, of reclaiming a term. (Like there weren't people doing graduate work in "queer studies" in 1963, but there are today.) And in older literature (though mostly British, I think) the word "queer" is used without any apparent connotations of sexuality. So I'm curious how Jack and Ennis would have heard the word. (Mostly as a slur to be used against gays, I'm guessing?)
(Whatever the connotations, yes, it is sad.)
(Oops. Jeff answered my question already. Thanks, Jeff. :) )
Daniel:
Thank you for clarifying that... :)
As a young person some of the references and cultural acknowledgements of the 60's still escapes me.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on September 26, 2006, 01:25:57 pm ---"Queer" as a label was negative--period--in 1963. There were no such things as "queer studies" then, and it was--what?--another twenty years before the American Psychological Association decided that homosexuality was not a pathology.
--- End quote ---
Right. "Queer" was always used as a pejorative in them days, and now it isn't necessarily. But just to avoid confusion over the particular word, I don't think it matters what label they used, they would have wanted to avoid association with the concept.
Speaking of verb tenses, I've always thought it strange that when movie-Ennis is talking on the phone to Lureen, he says "No ma'am, we was herdin sheep on Brokeback ..." Both the story and the screenplay say "we herded," so maybe it's just how it happened to come out when they filmed the scene. But it's an odd and kind of unnatural way to put it, even for someone with sloppy grammar, so I've also wondered if there's any reason for it.
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