The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
What Happened???
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on February 14, 2012, 09:11:45 pm ---Oh yeah. Because THAT'S not at all time consuming for your coworker. And keep in mind that I'm a parent who actually did all of those things. But it came with a price, one that I'm still paying today.
Nope. Believe it or not, it's really not nearly as easy as it might seem to you.
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If parents don't have the time to play with their kids even a bit, then people need to question why parents even bothered to have them in the first place? Just so they could say that they have but ship them off to soccer practice or whatever at every opportunity?
--- Quote ---Nope. They don't. They take drugs and sell drugs and get pregnant and wind up in prison in vastly larger proportions than middle-class and rich kids. I'm not saying it's because they were denied computers, although believe me, nobody who knows anything about education thinks that the computer gap between rich and poor kids is a good thing. But don't ever romanticize poor kids' childhoods.
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And this is because mommy and daddy were big meanies who didn't buy their kids electronics?
Um, yeah, whatever. Most everyone I grew up with were poor crayons or blue collar working class. They were the working poor. Their parents made enough money to keep roofs over their heads, food on the table and clothes on their kids's back. Cable TV? What a laugh. Who could afford that? Soccer practices? Uniforms? Ballet class? Yeah, right. As my mother used to say, "We're not rich" and we went to play with our cousins in the empty lots in the neighborhood.
--- Quote ---Delalluvia, you honestly have some good points. I'm sure there are cases where parents could be firmer with their kids. But most of those points, you should know, are completely familiar to any parent. You are not saying anything that every parent in the country hasn't heard a million times, from their in-laws and other parents and parenting gurus and people who don't have kids but who love to say simplistic things like "Who's the parent -- you or them?"
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The fact that you admit there are parents who aren't firm with their kids makes my case.
My best friend is currently dating one. Her boyfriend is a divorced father of one. He and his ex-wife are educated professionals and right now, their only son is ready to go to a regular high school from Montessori. My friend the teacher thinks this is a great idea since in her professional opinion, it's only hurting their son to continue at Montessori. He will be behind the other students academically and will have to learn to discipline himself to catch up.
The kid knows this and doesn't want to go. He'd rather stay the Big Fish in his small pond than actually have to work hard at his education.
Should be a no-brainer, right? Parents should do what's best for the kid in the long run and send him to a regular high school, right?
NOPE. Both parents are feeling guilty about the divorce and are currently talking themselves into letting him stay where he is.
My best friend keeps her opinion to herself as she bites her tongue listening to her BF convince himself so he will believe it was his own decision and not his kid calling the shots - as he makes his son a sandwich using the only bread his son will eat - an artisan bread from a local gourmet store. :P ::)
--- Quote ---The larger fact is, you simply don't know what it's like to raise kids. You just don't. That fact is glaringly obvious from your posts -- not just because you keep saying that this or that simplistic idea is "just that easy" but because you only see one side of things and overlook others that you aren't aware of and consequently get all kinds of things wrong. So although I know we could go back and forth ad infinitum about this, for page after page of thread, I'm not going to do that. It's not worth my time, and I honestly think it's not worth yours, either. To be honest, I have no interest in arguing about the best way to do something that I have done for 17 years -- actually pretty successfully, if I do say so myself; my kids are bright and healthy and popular and personable and successful in school -- and that as a professional writer I have also read about and talked to "experts" about and written about ... with somebody who's never done it at all and yet thinks she knows everything there is to know about it.
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I lived with my sister for two years in college. She wasn't there a lot with going to school and work full time. I was there most of the time. Guess who was helping raise her daughter? Yep, me.
It is that easy, to be disciplined with your kids. I was raised in that sort of environment, so I DO know what it's like. And guess what? Yes, my parents raised successful happy kids. I know many parents like to imagine that their jobs are horribly difficult and no one else who isn't a parent can understand, etc., etc., but honestly, quite a few single people do it because they're around kids quite a bit - whether because they're family or they belong to their SOs.
Look at the Duggars. They hand over the raising of their younger kids to their older kids. A 13 year old is currently helping raise kids. Tell me again, how difficult the job is?
ifyoucantfixit:
It is that easy, to be disciplined with your kids. I was raised in that sort of environment, so I DO know what it's like. And guess what? Yes, my parents raised successful happy kids. I know many parents like to imagine that their jobs are horribly difficult and no one else who isn't a parent can understand, etc., etc., but honestly, quite a few single people do it because they're around kids quite a bit - whether because they're family or they belong to their SOs.
With the greatest respect my dear, this is highly pompous sounding and self aggrandizing. To say that you are as experienced, and able to raise children, because "you have been around them quite a bit." Is is simply delusional. You can "be around them," then send them home to mama, or papa, or both. They don't have that option. There is no sending them, anywhere, except for the few occasions that someone other than the parent agrees to give them a respite. If it is an hour, or a day, or a week, or a month. It is still a respite. Raising a child, is a 24 hour a day, and night job. For the minimum of 18 yrs. No vacations, or quitting involved. That child is your primary duty, for the next 18 years of your life. When they are ill, when they are tired, when they are just frustrated. Not to mention all of the other issues that I made in my earlier post, as to the differing kinds of special issues they may have. It is a CONSTANT... so before you give someone a speech about how you know all the simple answers to it. I think you might, want to consider how dedicated that responsible parents are. How unappreciated they are by other people with these kinds of attitudes. It is hard work, and takes every fiber of your being sometimes. Not only because they are spoiled brats, or little annoying demons. It takes love, it takes patience, it takes above all dedication. Personally I tend to never criticize other folks parenting skills, unless they are annoying me. I never say it to them. I know personally what they are going through. The amount of rolled eyes, or frowns that they receive.
We have overall raised a large population that think that they know best how others should do many things. Not simply how to raise children, but how to vote, how to handle their birth control, how to dress or do all the other things in life. Many of the others in our population deem themselves more qualified to tell them how to do these things.. i think we would be better advised to handle our own situation, and have others do the same. Then when other peoples children's behaviors annoy us, we will realize, it is their problem to fix not ours If I don't approve of it. then I should remove myself from the situation. I am usually in an airplane, restaurant or a movie, when that kind of happening occurs. I think it is unfortunate that some people don't have someone to help them, during the chiild rearing years. They, then must take the children with them, and risk the wrath of the onlookers when those kinds of incidents happen. I am more than willing to admit it is (my problem,) that I am so judgmental and that it annoys me. They can't help the melt down that their child is experiencing. Then I check myself, and think,,, "aw I feel bad for them. " Hope it doesn't last too long. Which by the way, it has been my experience to say, it usually doesn't.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on February 14, 2012, 09:33:34 pm ---It is that easy, to be disciplined with your kids. I was raised in that sort of environment, so I DO know what it's like. And guess what? Yes, my parents raised successful happy kids.
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With all the bitching you've done about your sister on this site? Hmmm.
--- Quote ---Look at the Duggars. They hand over the raising of their younger kids to their older kids. A 13 year old is currently helping raise kids. Tell me again, how difficult the job is?
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I guess it's a good thing I'm not a parent, because if I were, I'd find that remark smart-alecky and insulting. What's next, "It's so easy a caveman can do it"?
And you do say that 13-year-old is helping, not doing it herself.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on February 14, 2012, 09:33:34 pm ---If parents don't have the time to play with their kids even a bit,
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You misread my post. I didn't say anything about not "even a bit."
--- Quote ---And this is because mommy and daddy were big meanies who didn't buy their kids electronics?
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You might want to go back and reread my post.
--- Quote ---Um, yeah, whatever. Most everyone I grew up with were poor crayons or blue collar working class. They were the working poor. Their parents made enough money to keep roofs over their heads, food on the table and clothes on their kids's back. Cable TV? What a laugh. Who could afford that? Soccer practices? Uniforms? Ballet class? Yeah, right. As my mother used to say, "We're not rich" and we went to play with our cousins in the empty lots in the neighborhood.
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Uh-huh. And think back ... what did I say about the importance of community?
--- Quote ---The fact that you admit there are parents who aren't firm with their kids makes my case.
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Nope. You missed my point.
--- Quote ---quite a few single people do it because they're around kids quite a bit - whether because they're family or they belong to their SOs.
Look at the Duggars. They hand over the raising of their younger kids to their older kids. A 13 year old is currently helping raise kids. Tell me again, how difficult the job is?
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Um, delalluvia? Babysitting and "being around kids" is not parenting. Not for sooooo many reasons. To take just one, the way kids behave around their babysitters and others is very very different than the way they do around their parents.
Sorry, delalluvia, but the more you post, the more you sound like you don't know what you're talking about.
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on February 14, 2012, 09:59:31 pm ---With all the bitching you've done about your sister on this site? Hmmm.
I guess it's a good thing I'm not a parent, because if I were, I'd find that remark smart-alecky and insulting. What's next, "It's so easy a caveman can do it"?
And you do say that 13-year-old is helping, not doing it herself.
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Thank. You. Jeff. :) :-*
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on February 14, 2012, 10:04:26 pm ---Thank. You. Jeff. :) :-*
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You're welcome, Katharine. :)
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