The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
Free Fall - Freier Fall
morrobay:
--- Quote from: gattaca on May 14, 2014, 05:55:33 am ---Absolutely. Kay is responsible - majorly so for the initiating these events. We do not know but perhaps Marc would not explored those feelings if Kay had not been the instigator and been present daily as a reminder. Marc's surprise to see Kay is no accident b/c he thought he's dodged a bullet by not going to see Kay again... then he could / would continue down this thread with Bettina, son, fatherly responsibilities, life, ...
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Dodged a bullet – good way to put it. And I agree that Marc probably would not, at least at this stage of his life, have explored his feelings any further if Kay had not been around, pushing him and tantalizing him. In 10 years? Who knows?
--- Quote ---The "now you know" like from Marc in the restroom says "I have responsibilities - a pregnant wife" loud and clear to me -so even if I really wanted to, I cannot "walk away..."
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I read the scene in the men’s room as Marc telling Kay, not so much that he can’t walk away from his responsibilities, (because it’s pretty early to be feeling anything about walking away), but that what happened in the forest had no meaning, it was a “one shot thing”, and nothing else is going to happen between them. Although in the very next scene, Marc is smoking outside, clearly unable to get Kay out of his mind.
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That's a tough one. We don't know what transpired in the training / roomie situation. We are shown tension and animosity between Marc and Kay during training exercises so perhaps Kay had already started playing Marc and Marc was resisting then. Maybe Kay was taking a chance pursing a "mostly" straight guy that he thought he had a chance with? That's a strong statement and Kay transferring to Marc's unit is an even stronger statement from Kay in his beliefs - really. There's a big difference in a one-time-thing and pursuit. It is interesting that them being roomies and bunk mates that Marc never mentioned that he's an expecting father - really? That would generally be on the top of the queue? It leads perhaps to the answer to your question - why?
More we are not told.... V.
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Good questions. I think it’s obvious that Kay transferring to Marc’s unit is the second step (after the forest) in his seduction.
And I wondered that too, about being roommates and not knowing anything about each other.
Still a lot of good topics to discuss about this movie.
mariska:
--- Quote from: butlers_fantasy on May 14, 2014, 12:37:44 pm ---Yeah, Ennis would never be able to get past his fear.
That's another big difference between the two movies: at least Marc was able to face up to the fact that he loved Kay - even though he denies to the end being gay, he made a huge step by admitting to Gregor & Bettina that he had been with Kay (even though he reduced it to "an affair"). Ennis would carry his secret of his love for Jack to his grave. That's a helluva lot to keep inside.
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Sometimes my lack of English keeps me from expressing well, but again that's exactly what I meant.
And: After Marc said to Kay: I can't just abandon Bettina and the baby, Kay said: admit that you are gay. En then Marc hit's hem and said: I'm not gay, that thing with you was just an affair. 2 Denials (I'm not gay, I don't love you). How I feel it: this was not a denial like "I refuse to believe I'm gay" just because he can't accept he is gay. Marc decided to stay with his family (because at that time it seemed to be the only option, which is understandable). So he fooled himself and Kay because it was the only way to deal with it, telling himself that Kay was just an affair, he would get over it and it would never happen again. What else could he do? He wants to believe that he will be happy with his family again, admitting he was gay and in love with someone else just didn't suite his situation.
morrobay:
Yes, that's exactly how I see it, too. He denied his depth of feelings for Kay as long as he could, passing their relationship off as unimportant, in order to do what he thought was the "right thing". After Bettina was gone, so was his reason to deny his real feelings for Kay.
mariska:
--- Quote from: butlers_fantasy on May 13, 2014, 10:09:49 pm ---Curious about your opinions: Does Kay have any fault in all this? He went after Marc, getting transferred to his unit, "if you do want to go jogging sometime", knowing that he was in a committed relationship with a woman who was pregnant with his child.
Sorry if this is a naïve question, did Kay think Marc was gay up until the time he met Bettina? Or was he just taking a chance with a straight guy that he was attracted to?
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No, is a good question. I think Kay tested Marc with little things like the smoke kiss and grapping his hand to light the cigaret. And then the looks between them. I guess Kay felt that Marc had feelings (and after the forest incident he was sure), but because of the way Marc reacted (a little chocked, surprised, in the forest really shocked) it should be clear to Kay that Marc had not this kind of experiences with men.
So I guess that Kay knew (at least he should know) that Marc leaded a hetero life.
mariska:
--- Quote from: butlers_fantasy on May 14, 2014, 01:45:10 pm ---Yes, that's exactly how I see it, too. He denied his depth of feelings for Kay as long as he could, passing it off as unimportant, in order to do what he thought was the "right thing". After Bettina was gone, so was his reason to deny his real feelings for Kay.
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Yes, and sometimes we humans have to experience ourselves that things don't work like this. Marc didn't try to contact Kay again when Bettina left the house. Bettina returned to Marc and the house (we don't know how long they have been together en how much time passed between Bettina's return and the shower scene), they both came to the conclusion that it didn't work anymore. And then Marc went to Kay's appartment.
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