The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
The Atheist Thread, Cont'd.
Shuggy:
Thank you, that is very clarifying. I'm not in a position to try to extact any sense from the guy (no friend of mine, arrogant little man) these days, we're inclined to get one letter each in the paper.
Lynne:
--- Quote from: TexRob on December 06, 2006, 10:23:48 pm ---As a practical problem, it's sometimes helpful when dealing with believers to remind them that it's possible to be atheist and still have a set of moral values. I find that doing so often decreases the size of the soapbox people are willing to stand on in order to attack the conclusions of others.
--- End quote ---
This is an excellent point, Robert, and one I try to make frequently with all the evangelicals in my own life. It's frustrating that 'they' seem unable to accept that it's possiible to have a value system and personal ethics wiithout belief in a higher power. I'm over-simplifying, but to me an intrinsic system of morality has a great deal more integrity than one based on the Ten Commandments or other religious doctrine. The reason I think this is that the religious folks have what I consider a 'built-in' ulterior motive, i.e. heaven, afterlife, etc. It should be sufficient to conduct yourself ethically and morally because it is the right way for human beings to treat each other.
I've said before that I waffle between atheism and agnosticism personally - it's like my scientific brain is in conflict with my idealistic, hopeful heart.
delalluvia:
I'm a theist, not an atheist or agnostic, but am very atheist/agnostic friendly since I understand the POV exactly.
Strange thing happened today. I was in the hospital, getting an upper GI endoscopy done for a problem I've been having. While being admitted, during the questioning sequence - where you're told that anything they may do to you might kill you, but not to hold that against them - I was asked a very strange question.
"Do you have a religious preference?"
Being used to the workplace, I was startled to even be asked such a personal question. I gave the older woman nurse/practitioner a strange look and replied honestly, "Pagan."
It was her turn to be startled and she looked at me and said "Really?"
I nodded and she said, "I don't think I've ever had anyone answer like that before."
She was being unintentionally rude, but I didn't take offense.
So then I asked why the hospital wanted to know such a thing.
The answer was, just in case something happened to me, the hospital might be able to notify or provide the appropriate clergy.
I shrugged.
Later, she got to the 'What do you do for a living?'
When I responded, she seemed relived, "Oh, that's why. Having a job like that might not make you believe in the Creation."
??? ??? ???
I didn't say I was an atheist/agnostic. I believe in a 'creation' just not a judeo/christian/islamo version.
Makes me wonder if she misunderstood what a pagan is, or if she just considered anyone who wasn't of her religious persuasion, a disbeliever, period.
oilgun:
--- Quote from: TexRob on December 06, 2006, 10:23:48 pm --- Many believers equate atheism with immorality, and many atheists seem to add fuel to that by implying that indeed, morality is not possible.
--- End quote ---
Richard Dawkins says that morality most likely pre-dated religion, that our moral sense has a Darwinian origin. I've always thought that but it's nice when an expert explains how it all came about.
It's nice to see some other godless heathens, cheers!
Shuggy:
I've been spending a lot of time at the Richard Dawkins website http://richarddawkins.net - and so have a lot of other people, apparently, it's getting very slow downloading. Lots of good stuff. A few nutters. Interestingly RD (as those of us call him who don't call him The Prof) engaged with Ted Haggard before he was exposed. TH was slimy about evoution and religion then, now he's too busy being slimy about homosexuality.
My gripe with RD is that he doesn't deal with the more sophisticated view of God expounded by the likes of Paul Tillich, only with the Creator/Designer (who he disposes of) and the Einsteinian God of Nature (who/which he leaves well alone). The Ground of all Being, for whom existence or non-existence is not meaningful, he doesn't consider. (It's hard to see how you can worship such a god, though.)
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