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Sheriff Roland:

--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on November 02, 2006, 09:59:52 pm ---...and you keep on showing how intolerant and narrowminded you are. shame on you.

--- End quote ---
In what way is your calling me narrowminded, and intolerant responding to any of my comments?

I see no shame in calling your argument what they are - unbelievable and certainly outdated.

The world is finally changing on the subject at hand, and America will have to either change it's intolerance (and not just go on discussing it for a long long time), or it should stop refering to itself as "the land of the free" - "the leader of the free world" - cause it no longer is.

Like on the subject of capital punishment, I hope it won't stay a couple of generations behind the times - and let's not talk about gun laws ...

Front-Ranger:
Excuse me, here but will you two please shape up or I'm kickin you out of my salon. I started this topic, and it wasn't for the purpose of lettin people piss on each other! As I see it, everyone's got a God-given right that supercedes the Constitution or whatever we mere mortals have put together, to seek union with another human being. And they should pursue it as far as it goes, there ain't no reins on this one! And that's all I have to say about that!

nakymaton:
The first of the marriage debates that I listened to, in Vermont, was very enlightening in a number of ways. I had recently gotten married myself, after living with my partner for seven years, and still had mixed feelings about the institution. And then suddenly there were all these people speaking out about why they wanted the opportunity to get married. Couples raising children together, couples dealing with sicknesses, couples who just wanted what I had had, a nice little party with my friends and family to celebrate a relationship.

And on the other side, there was this insane, irrational hatred. All this nonsensical stuff about protecting children, and about how the purpose of marriage was to have children. ("Huh," I thought. "And why aren't they campaigning to keep infertile heterosexuals from marrying, or to keep post-menopausal women from marrying?" Birth control for married people, I suspected, might be next on their hit list.)

And it created a statewide conversation, even if it ultimately resulted in civil unions rather than marriage.

Colorado's two ballot initiatives (domestic partnerships and a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage), on the other hand, don't seem to be starting conversations. The domestic partnership initiative is promoted as "not marriage... see, it's NOT MARRIAGE." And it seems as if that defensiveness concedes an important part of the debate, even before it starts. The practical parts, inheritance rights and rights to participate in medical decisions and all, are important, but what was really powerful about the debates in Vermont was the realization that these are real people, our friends and neighbors, and this is fundamentally unfair to them. And I'm not hearing that story being told in Colorado.

I still want to defeat Focus on the Family here in their home state, though.

ednbarby:

--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on November 02, 2006, 11:23:50 pm ---Excuse me, here but will you two please shape up or I'm kickin you out of my salon. I started this topic, and it wasn't for the purpose of lettin people piss on each other! As I see it, everyone's got a God-given right that supercedes the Constitution or whatever we mere mortals have put together, to seek union with another human being. And they should pursue it as far as it goes, there ain't no reins on this one! And that's all I have to say about that!

--- End quote ---

Agreed.  Not to add fuel to the fire, but abortion is a whole lot different issue from gay marriage.  In the former, you're talking about a human life.  As such, it will always be an emotional issue, and understandably so.  I myself am extremely pro-choice, but I can understand the other point of view to a large extent.  In the latter, you're talking about a basic human right, and a right that does not directly affect (or even indirectly affect) another human life.  Apples and oranges.

Front-Ranger:

--- Quote from: nakymaton on November 02, 2006, 11:47:28 pm ---
I still want to defeat Focus on the Family here in their home state, though.

--- End quote ---

When I was growing up, my father taught me that the way to win at ping pong was just to consistently return the ball, don't try anything fancy, and let the other person lose the game, rather than you winning it. That's what I see happening here in Colorado if we can consistently keep returning the ball. Initiative I wasn't it. Focus and their ilk will lose the game for us with their constant Haggards and other faux pas.

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