The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
Mary Renault Book Discussion
Kerry:
--- Quote from: injest on January 04, 2007, 08:01:15 pm ---now see I do NOT see Alexias's mother like that at all!!
I took that passage to mean that when she felt herself sicken is when she ordered him away...remember she pleaded for his life...
"....the midwife had handed me over to my mother to nurse. This annoyed my father; for she had taken a fancy to me after this, as women will, and being rather weak and feverish begged for my life with tears..."
it is very interesting to see how Alexias (the narrator of the story talks about the situation with an almost clinical, detached air)
Also interesting to see the attitude toward women...we are viewed as having little sense at all!
--- End quote ---
Gad! I missed that completely! Read it several times and somehow got the idea that it was the nurse begging for his life - and that the mother was an ogre! I'm now viewing the mother in a whole new light. Thanx :)
Kerry:
--- Quote from: injest on January 04, 2007, 08:05:14 pm ---His father is presented as a very stern, proper man; wealthy and respected...but also a bit soft hearted...remember that in this time it was pretty common to expose unwanted or unhealthy infants...(as it is still in some countries) He wouldn't take Alexias from his mother's arms by force (he could have easily) and did not order anyone else to do it...which leads me to think that maybe he was 'going thru the motions'
note in the last paragraph that he was fond of Alexias's mother...must have been a horrible time for him too...losing so much...
--- End quote ---
I agree. In Australia, we call such a person a "rough diamond" (eluding to an uncut diamond - rough of the outside but with the potential for beauty/greatness underneath). I laughed at the line about the father being "fond" of his wife. The implication being, for me, that he didn't love her - was just fond of her. Your thoughts?
Kerry:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on January 04, 2007, 06:32:08 pm ---You guys go ahead...I went out at lunchtime to another bookstore but they still did not have it. I bought the only MR book they had (The King Must Die) and ordered Last of the Wine. I'll catch up with you next week when it arrives.
--- End quote ---
I've made an Adobe Acrobat PDF copy of the first 3 chapters but don't know how to attach items here at BetterMost (it's so tricky - I can't work it out here!). However, I can e-mail it to you. What's your e-mail address? If you don't want to quote it in the open forum, send me a private message via my profile. You will need to have Adobe Acrobat Reader on your PC - it's free.
Cheers,
Kerry
injest:
--- Quote from: Kerry on January 04, 2007, 08:39:35 pm ---I agree. In Australia, we call such a person a "rough diamond" (eluding to an uncut diamond - rough of the outside but with the potential for beauty/greatness underneath). I laughed at the line about the father being "fond" of his wife. The implication being, for me, that he didn't love her - was just fond of her. Your thoughts?
--- End quote ---
well it is difficult for me to explain...(I just read it recently and it is hard to divorce information that comes later...) BUT if you look at the general attitude toward women...the patronizing tone...the dismissing of their opinions...together with the knowledge that in those days men considered women to be for begetting children only...fond is about the best you can expect...you will see as we get further in the book...can we revisit this later?
interesting too (to me) is the aside MR throws in about the source of the plague....the WOMEN blame (correctly) the contaminated water supply while the vastly 'superior' men assume it is a curse from the gods for some imagined sin....and laugh at the women...
Kerry:
--- Quote from: injest on January 05, 2007, 02:03:56 am ---well it is difficult for me to explain...(I just read it recently and it is hard to divorce information that comes later...) BUT if you look at the general attitude toward women...the patronizing tone...the dismissing of their opinions...together with the knowledge that in those days men considered women to be for begetting children only...fond is about the best you can expect...you will see as we get further in the book...can we revisit this later?
interesting too (to me) is the aside MR throws in about the source of the plague....the WOMEN blame (correctly) the contaminated water supply while the vastly 'superior' men assume it is a curse from the gods for some imagined sin....and laugh at the women...
--- End quote ---
I couldn't help but notice how readily and without hesitation MR used the "love" word on page 2, when describing what Alexias (uncle) felt for Philon, but could only manage "fond of" for what his (narrator's) father felt for his mother. I have no doubt that MR used these words deliberately, in such close proximity. It's something that's crossed my mind in the past, when reading MR. And I have come to the conclusion that this reflects MRs accuracy and honesty in truthfully portraying and recreating the ancient world. I understand she was an obsessive researcher. What you read in her books, apparently, is very close to the way it was. It would have been very easy for her to have deliberately misrepresented the ancient world and given women a more illustrious persona. But it wouldn't have been accurate. Must have broken her heart at times, being an educated, erudite gay woman herself, with a professional career of her own before taking up writing (she was a registered nurse). I have sometimes wondered why, as a lesbian, she didn't write books about the powerful women from antiquity. For example, there's Sappho, Olympias, Dido, Helen of Troy and the Delphic Sibyl, just to name a few off the top of my head, that would all make wonderful books. Wonder why she was so obsessed with gay male characters. Something to ponder and muse over.
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