The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
Mary Renault Book Discussion
injest:
there is a lovely scene in this chapter of the relationship between Alexias and his father...Alexias has struck a slave and his father walks in.
He tells Alexias to bring him his shield. Alexisa can not lift it...and this is what his father tells him:
"When you are man enough to carry a shield, you will learn how it happens that men are sold into slavery, and their children born in it. Till then, it is enough for you to know that Amasis and the rest are slaves, not through any merit of yours, but by the destiny of the heaven."
I think of classes we have today....whenever someone sneers at poor people or minorities or gays...it is their destiny...they don't choose to be that way..
Kerry:
Before progressing to chapter 2, there are a couple of additional quotes from chapter 1, that I believe warrant comment:
“And it is seldom a man can say, either of the Spartans or the plague, that he owes them life instead of death.” We have already spent a lot of time discussing how awful it must have been for Alexias to have suffered under the weight of all the bad omens happening at the time of his birth. I was dwelling so much on the negative that I missed this little gem. And it seems to me that here Alexias is saying that he views the Spartans and the plague as a positive, not a negative at all. For without them (to distract his father), he would surely have died. In this, he is quite right.
“But women . . . will always suppose that whatever causes them trouble must be wicked.” Absolutely priceless! And not a fault solely relegated to women, surely! How many times in life have we been hurt by benevolent forces? Not wicked in the least. Here be wisdom, indeed.
“My grandfather had a stone set up . . . showing the friends clasping hands in farewell, and a cup beside them on a pedestal.” I am presuming here that this is the cup of hemlock. If so, it is clear that suicide was not viewed as a disgrace in ancient Athens.
“My mother having brought me forth nearly a month too soon, either through a weakness of her body or the foreknowledge of a god.” How did I miss this gem on first reading? Of course, if it had been a full term pregnancy, Alexias’ mother would have died when she was eight months pregnant and he would never have been born. Ergo, his premature, runt status was a blessing “of a god”, not a curse after all.
MR is soooo deep!
Kerry:
--- Quote from: injest on January 07, 2007, 12:14:00 am ---there is a lovely scene in this chapter of the relationship between Alexias and his father...Alexias has struck a slave and his father walks in.
He tells Alexias to bring him his shield. Alexisa can not lift it...and this is what his father tells him:
"When you are man enough to carry a shield, you will learn how it happens that men are sold into slavery, and their children born in it. Till then, it is enough for you to know that Amasis and the rest are slaves, not through any merit of yours, but by the destiny of the heaven."
I think of classes we have today....whenever someone sneers at poor people or minorities or gays...it is their destiny...they don't choose to be that way..
--- End quote ---
You have expressed this beautifully and I readily agree. To quote a line from Mart Crowley's "The Boys in the Band" (see thread under Our Daily Thoughts), "I've known what I was since I was four years old" (attempt at levity LOL ;D). Certainly, like the majority of gay people, I believe that one does not make a choice about one's sexuality. Just as one does not make a conscious choice to be black, white, yellow, whatever. I'm sure most straight people would agree that they did not sit down one day and decide whether to be heterosexual or not. And then again, if one believes in reincarnation, one can view these matters from an entirely different perspective. But I digress - it's late and my mind's wandering . . . :-\
So, big bad daddy appears to have acquired some amount of wisdom. And he sounds cute, too! Bit of a stud, actually! :P I did squirm a little when reading the very sexy description Alexias gives of his father. Sounded somewhat weirdly incestuous to me. I can't imagine ever writing about my father in these terms:
"I used to look at him and wonder how it felt to be beautiful. He was more than six feet tall, grey-eyed, brown-skinned, and golden-haired; made like those big Apollos Pheidias' workshop used to turn out" (i.e., stunning!!!) :o
and this:
"It pleased me, however, to see him in his best blue mantle with the golden border, his brown chest and left shoulder bare, bathed and combed and rubbed down with sweet oil, his hair dressed into a garland and his beard short-pointed."
Very sexy imagery from a six year old, describing his father! ;)
Is it me?
injest:
well remember this is Alexias at a much older age recalling his youth. and in Greece at that time, physical beauty was considered a virtue...it feels to me as envy and hero worship more.
I will have to remind you of this descriptiong later in the book. I think MR had a reason for it...
Kerry:
Have you had any luck in obtaining the Sweetman biography of MR? She was very progressive. Very ahead of her time. There's a photo of her in the book, taken at a Black Sash protest in 1955. The caption reads, "She was among the first to join this women's movement against apartheid."
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