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Mary Renault Book Discussion

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Kerry:
Indeed, a magnificent city in its prime. Would be lovely to be able to go back in time and visit. But not during the plague or when the Spartans were invading! Come to think of it, maybe I’ll pass on the time-travel thing, after all!!!

Which leads me to your observation that the war between Athens and Sparta was “almost a cordial affair.” Wish I could agree with you on this point. I’d much prefer to imagine all those gorgeous young men “getting it on,” instead of killing each other. Alas, kill each other they did. And most brutally. Up close, eye to eye. Your beautiful adversary’s face contorted in agony, as you plunge your sword through his heart. His warm, life-blood literally covering you. Nothing as clinical as a bullet, shot from a distance, in those days!

And I venture that the only reason the walls of the farm were left standing was because of just that – they were stone walls, which the Spartans couldn’t burn. As for the olive trees, the Spartans wouldn’t dare burn them. They’d been planted by Athene (there was probably a shrine to her within the sacred grove, advising of this fact) and she could be a mean son-of-a-bitch when angered! It wasn’t for nothing that she held that spear and wore that helmet!

Certainly, the invasions were largely predictable at a certain time each year. And I am guessing that their main focus in burning the farms, was to destroy the crops. Alexias says, “. . . all of us coughing with the smoke of the burning fields.”  There was a reason why the Spartans were burning the fields, of course. It meant that if there was no food for the city, they may be able to starve-out the inhabitants and conquer the city proper. This was their ultimate aim. They wanted Athens, and all the fabulous wealth therein. In chapter 1 it is suspected that Spartans poisoning the water supply may have caused the plague. For this to be suspected, it’s probably happened in the past.

We all know that the Spartans were an army of warrior-lovers (or should that be “lover-warriors”?) and I got a certain quizzical voyeuristic buzz from reading Alexias’ account of what he found at the family farm, after the Spartans had gone home. He says he used to look forward to finding what they left behind each year.  I almost felt a sexual rush when Alexias recounted reading what the Spartans had written on the walls. Kinda like the feeling one gets on reading a particularly hot piece of graffiti in a public place. Admit it – we’ve all had that feeling! (gulp – I hope it’s not just me!). It was very personal – “. . . various tributes to their beauty and virtue.” Even reading Alexias’ second-hand account I still felt as though I was intruding upon something very personal. And the thought of finding the comb of one of those stunning Spartan warriors was a real turn-on for me. Like Alexias, I too would have considered such an item a “treasure.” I’m sure if daddy dearest hadn’t thrown it away, Alexias would have kept it under his pillow! Me too!

injest:
oh I agree that the war was very real and very dirty...I was talking about how Alexias as a child saw it. It was unlikely he saw any of the nastiness that war truly was..but instead saw it from almost a romantic view....his father all dressed in his fine armor on his war horse riding off to face the enemy..and returning always 'victorious'...

to Alexias as a child it was all a great game, I doubt his father ever disabused him of his hero worship...

that is also one of my favorite scenes....when his father found the graffiti and he started 'rubbing angrily at the charcoal and saying "Get this ignorant scrawl whited over. The boy will never learn to spell, or to make his letters properly, with this in front of him"

Kerry:
I must stop rabbiting-on about history and concentrate on what's in the book. I admire your focus and insight. I'm enjoying having  a female perspective. I have only ever read MR solitarily through the eyes of a man; albeit a sensitive, romantically inclined, gay man; but a man, nonetheless. I'd not appreciated this until now. In the past, I suspect I was concentrating on the grunt, the biffo and the sex!  ::)

I was aware of the romance, but I guess I was preoccupied with the harshness of the times. The blood and guts! Even in the highly charged romantic scene with Alexander in the great bed with Bagoas in "The Persian Boy," I'm most drawn to the way MR describes the smell of "sex and cedarwood" in the room! Grunt!  :o

I love the way you are looking through the wide eyes of the infant Alexias, watching his "beautiful" (sigh!) father march off to war, resplendent in his polished and beplumed armour. I've still got a crush on this cocky, arrogant, peacock of a man. However, as I'm not reading ahead and only taking one chapter at a time, I suspect I may come to regret any misplaced admiration I have for him. Am I right? Go on, you can tell me  ;)

Nooooo dooooon't! I'm enjoying it too much, to have the plot given away ahead of time! (comment aside to self - "I bet daddy dearest ends up being a real bastard, just like John Twist!")

Let's discuss the Rhodian?

Your turn!!!  ;D

David In Indy:
Hmmm.... I guess I will go back and read this thread from the very beginning. I saw a post from Jess and Kerry and I started checking out this thread on the 7th page. It's as if I'm listening to half of a telephone conversation.

Serves me right for evesdropping, huh??  ???

I have some reading ahead of me tomorrow, I guess.  :)

Kerry:
David!!! What are you doing up at this time of night?! It's only 7pm here in Sydney, but I figure it must be very late in Indianapolis!   :o

Grab yourself a copy of "The Last of the Wine" and join our Mary Renault Book Club.   :laugh:

Do that tomorrow! Go to bed first!  ;)

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