Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Post-Divorce Scene
Brown Eyes:
Heya Jeff and Marge,
This is a really interesting discussion. This scene is a major "tipping point" in Jack's perception of the relationship I think. I think his immediate and continual urge for a physical relationship with Ennis is almost a given and a major driving factor behind the relationship lasting as long as it did (the physical chemistry between both of them... is something I think the filmmakers want the audience to see as a huge aspect of their relationship). I think this physical need is one reason that Jack actually comes back after this rejection (and his parting phrase of "see you next month then"). The need for the sexual contact runs through all of this (and may seems sort of frivolous, but really is a truly important thing on a serious level). But, Marge, you're absolutely right that I think this is the time that Jack really does begin to question what's behind the sex. Is there more to their connection than brief encounters? What is Ennis willing to do for him? He may not forumulate the question exactly, but he's probably sort of wondering if the sex is tied to love or if it's just sex. I'm sure when he drives away crying these are the major things he's worrying about. He was rebuffed once in the "prayer of thanks" camping trip after his somewhat premature offer of the cow and calf operation idea. But, he was willing to give Ennis's plan a try. This second and pretty harsh rejection probably carries more of a sting because of the amount of time that's already been committed and because he realizes that it wasn't just Ennis's marriage that was holding Ennis back. That excuse/ obstacle is now gone and Ennis is still unable to make a move towards something more permanent with Jack (probably the point of the white truck... that one white truck is enough for Jack to see just how scared Ennis still is of the opinions of passers-by).
I'm discussing this in a lopsided, Jack-centric way at the moment. I realize this. Trying to see this whole scene and scenario from Ennis's point of view and with his very specific concerns and fears in mind is a tricky business. Espeically when all of those concerns and fears are weighted with the depth of feeling that we know Ennis feels for Jack. The question of guilt and I think Heath's attempt to physically portray Ennis's conflict and sense of guilt here is equally interesting.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: atz75 on January 24, 2007, 10:57:52 pm ---The need for the sexual contact runs through all of this (and may seems sort of frivolous, but really is a truly important thing on a serious level).
--- End quote ---
Yes, it is important with respect to these guys. Annie tells us that, years on years, the heat and brilliance of their sexual couplings never diminish. (The cynic in me adds, "Sure, because they only did it a couple of times a year.")
Tell you what, when I look back over all I wrote two nights ago, I'm not happy. I spilled a lot of electronic ink and yet I don't think I really conveyed what upset me, that if I didn't know what was "really going on" in the post-divorce visit, it would be possible to see all this as far less significant than it really is. :-\
BBM-Cat:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on January 25, 2007, 10:36:31 am ---Yes, it is important with respect to these guys. Annie tells us that, years on years, the heat and brilliance of their sexual couplings never diminish. (The cynic in me adds, "Sure, because they only did it a couple of times a year.")
Tell you what, when I look back over all I wrote two nights ago, I'm not happy. I spilled a lot of electronic ink and yet I don't think I really conveyed what upset me, that if I didn't know what was "really going on" in the post-divorce visit, it would be possible to see all this as far less significant than it really is. :-\
--- End quote ---
I don't want to overfocus on this one idea in such a vastly important topic, but it is actually that very thought that has been bothering me for awhile, and maybe it has been addressed elsewhere - but yeah, Jack & Ennis spent only a few times together each year - they were in a chronic honeymoon phase. I believe somewhat in the "ages and stages" theories of human development which have also been aptly applied to human relationships. Following this line of thought, Jack and Ennis did not ever have the opportunity to 'nest' or to really 'blend' their lives together. The real irony is that while they tried to keep their married lives separate from their affair (I'm using that term loosely here) , in the end it just could not be done - everything about their lives impinged on the other's.
So was their relationship only all about sex? No, certainly not. I guess what I'm trying to say is that ultimately though, their relationship could not be sustained at the "honeymoon level", yet it could neither grow in more integrated directions.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: BBM-Cat2006 on January 25, 2007, 06:47:10 pm ---I don't want to overfocus on this one idea in such a vastly important topic, but it is actually that very thought that has been bothering me for awhile, and maybe it has been addressed elsewhere - but yeah, Jack & Ennis spent only a few times together each year - they were in a chronic honeymoon phase. I believe somewhat in the "ages and stages" theories of human development which have also been aptly applied to human relationships. Following this line of thought, Jack and Ennis did not ever have the opportunity to 'nest' or to really 'blend' their lives together. The real irony is that while they tried to keep their married lives separate from their affair (I'm using that term loosely here) , in the end it just could not be done - everything about their lives impinged on the other's.
So was their relationship only all about sex? No, certainly not. I guess what I'm trying to say is that ultimately though, their relationship could not be sustained at the "honeymoon level", yet it could neither grow in more integrated directions.
--- End quote ---
Nothing I can really add, just to say, astute observation.
And I like the way you put it: "They were in a chronic honeymoon phase." :D
Cameron:
I have been wondering about it since i read the last few messages and Jeff's question . And I started wondering, and I know that some of you will strongly disagree with me, wasn't the whole relationship much more about sex for Jack then for Ennis? I do agree with the original question here, is that why Jack went straight to Mexico after the post divorce meeting. What I still cannot get about that scene is why couldn't Jack have just waited around until Ennis brought the girls back home to Alma? I mean to me it just seemed like Ennis was explaining that he had the girls that weekend so he couldn't go off with Jack at that moment. I don't really understand what he expecting, Ennis to just leave the girls at his shack and run off with Jack? The fact that he had this reaction and then goes to Mexico makes me think it was much more so about the sex for Jack than for Ennis.
I think for Ennis it was about everything, after all he was not even capable of having any kind of meaningful or successful life without Jack, but Jack was.
Also the line that gets me about this whole subject is " You have no idea how bad it gets, I'm not like you, I can't get by on a couple of high altitude f**ks a couple of times a year." So is that all Jack was thinking of, he wanted more high altitude meetings a year to have sex?
And I think the ironic thing to this line was Ennis did know how bad it gets, it was much much worse for him, and not just about the sex
(yes, I admit I do see it all from Ennis's side)
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