Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
A Ninth Viewing Observation
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: jpwagoneer1964 on August 10, 2006, 06:11:11 pm ---Ennis does start to say something"Jack..." and the Jack steps in with"I see you next month then" and leaves.
--- End quote ---
Very good point! If Jack hadn't interrupted, I still doubt Ennis would have said anything about love or the couch or even the beans in the cupboard. But he might have said something that would soften the blow. Even if only, "Jack, I'm sorry, it's great to see you, and I'm really looking forward to our next rendezvous."
OK, so he might not use the word "rendezvous."
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 10, 2006, 07:01:04 pm ---Very good point! If Jack hadn't interrupted, I still doubt Ennis would have said anything about love or the couch or even the beans in the cupboard. But he might have said something that would soften the blow. Even if only, "Jack, I'm sorry, it's great to see you, and I'm really looking forward to our next rendezvous."
OK, so he might not use the word "rendezvous."
--- End quote ---
If only jack came on a different day Ennis probally could have spent a day or so with him.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote ---I don't think the words "I can't stand it no more" were carelessly chosen (by the filmmakers, I mean) as just some random phrase for Ennis to blurt out in the heat of the moment. It's no coincidence, IMO, that these words precisely echo what has been Ennis slogan all along -- that if you can't fix it you gotta stand it -- as well as Jack's "I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."
But if you can't stand it, what do you gotta do? Try to forget about it? No. The flip side of the slogan is, "If you can't stand it, you gotta fix it." So I think Ennis decides to fix it.
--- End quote ---
I think focusing on Ennis's own motto in relation to his exclamation during the argument scene is particularly important when you think about what we know about Ennis's personality. Ennis likes to follow rules (when he can)... when he breaks the rules (almost any rule) it causes him anxiety or at the very least he complains about it... or tries to break the rules only a little bit (i.e. killing an elk is breaking the rules a bit because it's poaching, but it's not as bad as killing a sheep). So, it seems likely that he will go to great lengths to follow his own rule. And it is true... there are only two options in his motto/ rule. You can stand it or you can fix it. You can't quit it and still be following the rule.
I have another totally different comment to make about the issue of Ennis being concerned about Jack being a good father (and this idea relating back to Ennis's happiness when Jack tells him he has a baby during the reunion scene). I think Ennis's look of something like shock or surprise (mixed with a lot of happiness) is at least partially because Ennis is surprised at the idea of Jack being with a woman. Just surprised at Jack being a father period. This is not how Ennis thinks of Jack up until this point. I don't think it even occurred to Ennis that Jack would get married. I have no real evidence for this... just a hunch.
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: atz75 on August 10, 2006, 08:21:22 pm ---
I have another totally different comment to make about the issue of Ennis being concerned about Jack being a good father (and this idea relating back to Ennis's happiness when Jack tells him he has a baby during the reunion scene). I think Ennis's look of something like shock or surprise (mixed with a lot of happiness) is at least partially because Ennis is surprised at the idea of Jack being with a woman. Just surprised at Jack being a father period. This is not how Ennis thinks of Jack up until this point. I don't think it even occurred to Ennis that Jack would get married. I have no real evidence for this... just a hunch.
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I don't think that Ennis is at all suprised that Jack is married, after all he himself is, and Ennsi feels the only option at least at that time of their lives to live the straight life. Ennis is proud that Jack has a son, and remind him to take care of his family, which to Jack credit he does.
dly64:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 10, 2006, 04:21:33 pm ---I don't think the words "I can't stand it no more" were carelessly chosen (by the filmmakers, I mean) as just some random phrase for Ennis to blurt out in the heat of the moment. It's no coincidence, IMO, that these words precisely echo what has been Ennis slogan all along -- that if you can't fix it you gotta stand it -- as well as Jack's "I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."
But if you can't stand it, what do you gotta do? Try to forget about it? No. The flip side of the slogan is, "If you can't stand it, you gotta fix it." So I think Ennis decides to fix it.
--- End quote ---
100% agreement.
--- Quote ---In the post-divorce scene, I think the girls are a legitimate reason to turn Jack away. Still, he could have found some other way to reassure Jack, and didn't.
But I do think that if Ennis moved in with Jack he would almost certainly lose contact with his daughters (or at the very least, he would be convinced that would happen). And though that wasn't the only reason he rejected the sweet life, it definitely would have been a factor.
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I acknowledge this. I think I had talked about this on IMDb. It is a legitimate concern. However, I think that Ennis is not as close to his daughters as he pretends to be. That is a bit of a strong statement …. but if Ennis was so invested in his daughters, how would he not know that Alma, Jr. hadn’t seen Troy for two years? And that she was in a serious relationship with a guy for about a year? I am not saying that Ennis doesn’t love his daughters. He does. He also loves Jack. But one thing he does with both of them …. he disappoints them time after time after time.
--- Quote from: Mikaela on August 10, 2006, 05:00:08 pm ---I've never doubted that Ennis loves his daughters. I'm certain that he does. "Life's continuance" is important to Ennis, as AP points out. He cares about them deeply. In the "moving to Texas" quarrel he is genuinely worried about losing contact with his girls - he can't imagine doing that, so in the fantasy world they have to come along. But, still - in his dealings with Jack, several times Ennis uses his daughters / the child support as an objection, an impediment to Jack's wishes for a sweet life that he (Ennis) is able to verbalize, when the *real* or rather the *major* impediment(s) and emotions remain unvoiced.
This is a case in point. Word for word, Ennis is talking as if Jack has come up to spend the weekend with him, which can't be because of the girls. He doesn't address the real reason Jack is there, doesn't tell him to come back in two days' time so they can deal with it and try to sort themselves and their future out..... Of course he should prioritize his girls when he has the care of them that one weekend. But that's not the point in that scene IMO. The inability to acknowledge openly what's really at stake, and to arrange some way to deal with it, is.
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Agreed! Beautifully stated.
--- Quote ---Oh, yes. I know I posted previously somewhere that Jack's question about Ennis re-marrying is among the saddest lines in the movie to me - because I think it confirms that Jack has given up hoping, even. Saying that, he acknowledges that he realizes Ennis is going to go through life pretending to not be queer with all his might; - and so to that purpose Jack is genuinely surprised that Ennis hasn't done the obvious thing, then, and found a new wife to complete the "charade".
--- End quote ---
100% agree
--- Quote from: jpwagoneer1964 on August 10, 2006, 06:11:11 pm ---Ennis does start to say something"Jack..." and the Jack steps in with"I see you next month then" and leaves.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: jpwagoneer1964 on August 10, 2006, 08:09:33 pm ---If only jack came on a different day Ennis probally could have spent a day or so with him.
--- End quote ---
Ennis is trying to somehow smooth over the awkwardness of the situation. He wouldn’t have said, “Jack, stay at the Motel Siesta and we’ll get together later.” And if Jack would have shown up on another day when the girls weren’t there, he would have used another excuse like … “Jack, I gotta work …” (sound familiar?) It’s not the content of what Ennis is saying, it’s what he’s not saying. Ennis rambles on and on about having the girls that weekend. But while he’s talking, he’s watching the truck that’s driving by. Another sign that Jack knows Ennis will never change. Ennis’ fear of being “outed” is too strong.
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