Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
How would you describe Jack's and Ennis' sexuality?
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Scott on March 15, 2007, 11:43:02 am ---Ok for those of you who believe in God, and that GLBT folkl were made that way by God, then lets carry this notion forward a little.
Annie Proulx created Ennis and Jack, so for all intents and purposes, she is their God and creator. She has said that they were/are gay, so...
I got into this argument over on DC a long while ago. Does the creator of an artistic endeavor, have the right to impose their intentions on the person who is reading/watching/looking art?
--- End quote ---
I firmly don't believe that an author/ artist can impose an interpretation on an audience member. No one can control another person's reactions or response to an ambiguous work of art to that degree. I would think it wouldn't even be an interesting thing to try to do... to impose a meaning (I mean). One of the best things about art is that it generates discussion, causes people to think and creates debate (I think most all good art does this to some degree).
Also, when it comes to the film... Proulx is no longer the only author we're talking about. Ang Lee, McMurtry, Ossana have all contributed to changes and nuances given to the characters and story line. Even the way the actors play the characters (tone of voice, facial expression, etc.) contribute to variations in how scenes are interpreted. (**editorial note**- Jeff, I was posting this at the same time you were I think... so sorry for appearing to re-iterate some of your points!)
Phillip! Thanks for jumping into this topic! I'm being bad and posting this little response while I'm at work, so I don't have a lot of time to reply. I'll come back and write more once I'm home from work and at liberty.
:)
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: atz75 on March 15, 2007, 12:09:01 pm ---
(**editorial note**- Jeff, I was posting this at the same time you were I think... so sorry for appearing to re-iterate some of your points!)
--- End quote ---
That don't bother me none. :D
I wonder, though, if this isn't a more basic question? If an author says, "This character whom I have created is gay," who am I to say, "No, this character is not gay."
I can see where you can discuss whether or not the character as created is convincingly gay, whether things the character says or does ring true in light of your own experience of being gay, or of gay people you know. But for me, if an author says a character is gay, then the character is gay.
Scott6373:
--- Quote from: atz75 on March 15, 2007, 12:09:01 pm ---
I firmly don't believe that an author/ artist can impose an interpretation on an audience member. No one can control another person's reactions or response to an ambiguous work of art to that degree. I would think it wouldn't even be an interesting thing to try to do... to impose a meaning (I mean).
--- End quote ---
I can agree with that when we are talking about subjective artistic issues. As a performer, I would never impose how someone listened to the music I made, but, there can be no doubt that Schuman wrote those notes. He made those dynamic markings...etc.
--- Quote from: atz75 on March 15, 2007, 12:09:01 pm ---Also, when it comes to the film... Proulx is no longer the only author we're talking about. Ang Lee, McMurtry, Ossana have all contributed to changes and nuances given to the characters and story line. Even the way the actors play the characters (tone of voice, facial expression, etc.) contribute to variations in how scenes are interpreted. (**editorial note**- Jeff, I was posting this at the same time you were I think... so sorry for appearing to re-iterate some of your points!)
--- End quote ---
I don't even consider the film in this discussion, so I am always referring to Ms. Proulx's original characters, but even if I did include the film, the birth mother is the birth mother no matter who may raise the child.
southendmd:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on March 15, 2007, 01:06:51 pm --- But for me, if an author says a character is gay, then the character is gay.
--- End quote ---
But, if the author said this years after the story was published...
Annie also said we finish the story in our own lives, with our own world views, prejudices, etc.
I believe readers are active participants and are entitled to their own opinions, projections, conclusions. This is true of any art; in fact, great art invites discussion and isn't easily defined.
One of my favorite paintings is a Magritte: it's a painting of a pipe with the lettering "ceci n'est pas une pipe" ("this is not a pipe"). So, is it, or isn't it?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on March 15, 2007, 12:01:41 pm ---In the end, though, it strikes me as presumptuous that a reader or viewer could claim to "know" a fictional character better than the creator(s) of that character.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Scott on March 15, 2007, 01:32:00 pm ---I don't even consider the film in this discussion, so I am always referring to Ms. Proulx's original characters, but even if I did include the film, the birth mother is the birth mother no matter who may raise the child.
--- End quote ---
Well, Annie herself said that Heath "knew better than I how Ennis felt and thought." Heath is also a creator, of course, but before that he was a reader.
Art is a collaboration between artist and audience. Especially enigmatic works of art, like this story and film, which demand audience involvement. Why would an artist leave room for ambiguity if she wanted to impose only one rigid interpretation? I don't think it's like a crossword puzzle, where you put together the clues and come up with the "right" answer.
Deciding to interpret something by finding out what the creator says about it and then using that is a guide is as valid a way as any other, I guess, though it's still a choice. And even then, I'd be careful about basing a whole interpretation on a sentence from an interview, or even an essay. With an interview, you not only have to assume the subject said exactly what she thinks, but also count on her having been quoted correctly and thoroughly and in context. Right there, that's a big leap. Even in an essay, the creator may be using shorthand to make a point. For example, maybe Annie had heard a lot of people say they thought Ennis was a straight man who happened to fall in love with a man, and she wanted to correct that misconception -- or at least assert her own intentions! ;D -- so she said, no, Ennis is gay. Does that mean Ennis couldn't possibly have one iota of attraction to women? That he's completely at one end of the Kinsey scale? Not necessarily.
However, I happen to believe that he's at least close to one end of the Kinsey scale. That's based on the way Ennis behaves around Alma, Jack and Cassie.
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