Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Female Sexuality in BBM
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on March 15, 2007, 06:49:19 pm ---Well, when I was in Sun Valley/Ketchum last, I remember there bein a lot of cokeheads!!
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That was certainly the case when I was there last, but that was more than 25 years ago, so I wasn't sure it was still that way.
LauraGigs:
I love this thread & have a lot to say. But first: about why Cassie put up with Ennis?
--- Quote ---She's beautiful, confident, bold ... and yet she puts up with a boyfriend who is so uninterested...
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Doesn't that happen pretty often though? That a great person will put up with a sub-par relationship?
--- Quote ---And not only does she put up with him, she fallls in love with him, chases after him when he starts to fade and is heartbroken when he dumps her!
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1) As a pretty waitress, she's probably sick of men coming on to her and has heard (or overheard) every pickup line in the book. A man she must pursue is refreshing and intruiging. (As in Lureen's attraction to Jack.)
2) One thing we know about Cassie is that she's an aspiring nurse — therefore drawn to the idea of rehabilitating those who seem in need of healing, which Ennis certainly did!
3) She was probably infatuated with Ennis to a point that logic ("it's been X number of years") takes a backseat. And nothing keeps infatuation alive like mystery, which Ennis had in spades.
--- Quote ---...and [Ennis] presumably isn't the greatest in bed.
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Alma sure seemed turned on by Ennis (even 11 years into their marriage and with all their problems)! So he must have been doing something right. Turning Alma over was objectionable, certainly. But outside of that (and with mastery of straight sex being a necessary part of his overall cover — and part of his denial), maybe he wasn't so bad in the sack.
Brown Eyes:
Thank you all for the awesome responses so far! I think this is turning into a really interesting discussion! :-*
So, what do you all think about Alma Jr.? Nobody's weighed-in on her yet.
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on March 15, 2007, 08:52:18 am ---Alma:
Oh my, poor Alma. She was so much a product of her time and place. A victim to that specific society as much as Ennis and Jack (more than Cassie and Lureen).
Very long ago we discussed her background, her (assumed) upbringing and the fact that she was downright "trained" to be the woman and wife she was. I believe she simply had not much awareness and therefore no high expectations in regard to her own sexuality and their sex life. Women were trained to obey their husbands, in daily life as well as in the bedroom. And so she let him do what she hated.
I also agree with you about Ennis. As much as I love him - this is too much. It's truly the only thing I hold against him. The fact that he was gay is an explantaion, but in no way an excuse. The only thing that can be said to his credit is (again) their time and upbringings. He was also raised in the believe that men had every right to do what they wanted with their wifes. Even if this was never explicit stated to him (in regard to sex), it was just how the world was, it was 'natural' and a matter of fact.
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Hi Penthesilea, I very much agree with your interpretation of the situation. And, I'll just say that this whole issue really freaks me out... even the idea that people are "trained" one way or the other is creepy to me... let alone the idea that one person is expected to "obey" the other when it comes to the matter of her own body (**shudders in freaked-outness**). But, I do think you're right that it goes a long way to explain things with regard to Ennis and Alma in bed. Still it surprises me about Ennis and his decision to treat Alma this way. From almost everything else we learn about Ennis, at least to me, he seems very sensitive to other people. And, I do think he was fully aware that she didn't like this behavior (whether or not they actually discussed it in conversation) I'm sure he would have been able to sense her discomfort. I do agree, too, with what has been said already in this thread... that he's definitely capable to blocking out or denying certain realities when it comes to his relationships with other people. This one particular issue is so unsettling and honestly pretty cruel, that it seems well "below" what we know of Ennis otherwise. For me it almost feels out of character for Ennis.
--- Quote ---That's a good question. My first thought was that it would have been "too much". But on the other side, Ang Lee is a master of subtle hints. He sure would have been able to work it into the movie just as a little, unobstrusive sidenote. Maybe he really did with the interaction between Lureen and LaShawn? I'm not decided about this.
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Why do you think it would be too much? I mean, this movie (on one of it's many levels) is about confronting the topic of sexuality- focused primarily on gay male sexuality, but heterosexual female sexuality is at least addressed in different ways (through the lense of several very different characters) and the topic of bisexuality in men can also be said to be at issue within the context of the film/ story. I think this leaves a bit of a skewed picture of female sexuality. Granted the range of the film is sort of narrow given the relatively small number of major characters.
LauraGigs:
--- Quote ---And, I do think he was fully aware that [Alma] didn't like [being turned over]. This one particular issue is so unsettling and honestly pretty cruel, that it seems well "below" what we know of Ennis otherwise. For me it almost feels out of character for Ennis.
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The book makes it clear that Ennis makes Alma climax before turning her over — lending at least a bit of reciprocity and consideration to his character.
Interestingly, the film makes it clear that he doesn't. I wonder why this is.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: LauraGigs on March 15, 2007, 07:38:22 pm ---I love this thread & have a lot to say. But first: about why Cassie put up with Ennis?
--- Quote ---She's beautiful, confident, bold ... and yet she puts up with a boyfriend who is so uninterested...
--- End quote ---
Doesn't that happen pretty often though? That a great person will put up with a sub-par relationship?
--- End quote ---
Heya,
I'm just popping back in to say I think this is also a really great point. For some reason it reminds me of Jacks behavior too. If we substitute the word "un-committed" for the word "uninterested" in reference to his perception of Ennis's attitude towards him. I know many people are a bit in awe of Jack's persistence in coming back year after year over all those miles to a boyfriend who won't commit. And certainly I'm not suggesting that the relationship between Jack and Ennis was "sub-par" except with respect to the dissatisfaction on both of their parts when it came to the distance/ lack of time/ commitment, etc.
I think the film (not the story at all) tries to create some kind of comparison (if not equivalence) between some aspects of Cassie and Jack. And, I think this is all done so that it can come to a head in the bus stop conversation (or at least it seems to cause Ennis to maybe have a big realization about the reality of his relationship to Jack during the bus stop conversation with Cassie). I wonder if this might be why it would be important for the relationship between Ennis and Cassie to be perceived to be long (4 or 5 years). This way, at the very least, Cassie and Jack are both depicted as long "suffering" in certain aspects of "waiting" for Ennis.
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