Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
One Man Men
Momof2:
--- Quote from: Rayn on March 28, 2006, 04:25:39 am ---"...to be human is to have sexuality and to be human is also NOT to have sexuality limited to physical impulse such as animals have for the purposes of procreation. Humans are sexual beings, and humans are emotional beings. Humans need bonding, and humans need love. There are those times when two humans bond and love and that leads to physical desire and sexual expression regardless of the genders of the two humans who love each other."
Jack in Maine
He loves Jack for that reason first. It's not about Jack's body so much as it is Jack's heart and mind, but he loves Jack's mind and heart so much that it finds expression in physical form. It's clear to me that Ennis and Jack are soulmates and souls, though they exist in bodies, have no gender. This is confusing for Ennis at first, but it is his love that wins over his confusion and his fear to a great degree too.
Jack is an oasis of intimacy and understanding for Ennis and that is part of the beauty of the relationship. Ennis is one of the walking wounded, rememeber? His folks are killed in a car accident, he was raised by siblings who, in the end have their own interests and who finally leave Ennis on his own, but more importantly, Ennis has suffered the terrifying trauma of seeing Earl, the tough old bird, lying in a ditch brutally maimed and murdered. His own father may have had a hand in that, but regardless, his father makes a point of exposing his own nine year old son to this horror. That left a deep and lasting fear in Ennis, but still, he loves Jack, still he cannot stop seeing Jack, he needs Jack. It's a wonder that he can being so nearly emotionally crippled by the fear of homosexuality and what might happen to him if he ventures into that area of his sexuality! So, it really is a testament to the power of real love that Ennis can fall in love with Jack at all.
Love is a force of nature!
I agree with that!! I get so confused when people start labeling people. I am straight. Well more round than straight. I love men. I think they are beautiful and mysterious. I also love women. I think that they are beautiful and sexy. I look at Playboy more than my husband. I am enthralled with women. I am probably attracted to them sexually. Does this make me gay or homosexual? I guess it would be lesbian. Can you be a lesbian, never have had sex with a woman, be married to, sexually and emotionally attracted to a man and be a lesbian? It is so confusing. See what happens when we label people.
I have always thought that Jack and Ennis fell in love with each other and it just so happened that they were men. I do not know what that makes them. Well, I do. It makes them LUCKY!!!
--- End quote ---
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on August 30, 2006, 05:17:50 pm ---I just wanted to reply to this because it's the site of my very first post on this board, back on March 8, 2006. We were a wordy bunch back then, weren't we!! Thanks and love to all of you who are still here today, and there are quite a few! Funny thing is, I don't think we have resolved this topic yet!!!
--- End quote ---
*sniff* Ah the memories. Thanks FR, nice little trip down memory lane.
Front-Ranger:
You're welcome, Chris. I hope Impish saw this too. The others who posted here...I haven't heard from in a long time. Maybe they're still active on Safe Haven.
Rayn:
Thanks Mom of 2... for your honesty and insight.
Rayn
JT:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on March 22, 2006, 09:33:54 am ---Hi Jack, goodness you REALLY like thinking about this don't you? All power to you, as long as you're having fun. :)
You know, one of the best things about BBM is that everyone can view it and come away with their own interpretation, and they're all correct. If you see two straight men, then that's what they are (please note that I'm agreeing with you from a certain point of view). However, on reflection I see two gay men that have so convinced themselves that they are straight that they actually believe it. I think you could just as easily take all of the points in your post, turn them on their head saying that they're really gay, and in denial, and all of the scenes still work! So in my opinion, there is little point in trying to convince anyone of a particular point of view, because I don't think there's a single right answer.
Ok, past all the formalities now so I can talk about what I saw in these characters (again just for fun). As I said I think both of them were gay, but because of their own prejudices they could not accept it and therefore tried to pursue a straight life, more or less successfully. I also think an interesting question to consider is, would they have had any type of gay relationship if they hadn't met on BBM? This is probably where your perspective has the most credibility, since if Jack and Ennis had never met they probably wouldn't have had a gay relationship at all with anyone else, and therefore they're straight. This is especially true of Ennis who probably would never have gone down this path, who knows about Jack though. But I have a lot of trouble accepting all this because meet they did, and more importantly they fell in love. In my mind, it is the fact that they were in love and slept together far outweighs the fact that they were also married and had children.
The thing that most makes me see Ennis as gay is the fact that he becomes less and less capable of maintaining his straight life as the film progresses. After they first leave the mountain we know that Ennis loves Jack, although we don't fully understand this until the flashback. They part company and Ennis doesn't think that they'll see each other again. He fulfils his conjugal duties, although we see that his desires are not entirely "missionary" in nature. But after the reunion and the affair begins, Ennis' physical relationship with Alma deteriorates to the point that he would rather leave her alone if she didn't want more kids. In my opinion, Ennis is gay and the film is about his journey to that realisation.
As for Jack, well some people say his bisexual, some say gay, Jake Gyllenhaal himself said that he thought Jack was straight but "in love" with Ennis. Bisexual? Do we think this because he has sex with both men and women? Whoop-de-do I say! How many times have we heard about married men finally coming to terms with their sexuality later in life, coming out and "becoming" fully gay. The only time that I think bisexual is a relevant title is when an individual chooses to have both male and female lovers as a conscious and informed choice, interchanging the genders also by choice. In Jack's case, it was far less about choice as necessity. Now I know he didn't have to have sex with Lureen in the car, or get married, but then again neither did Ennis. I just think that Jack needed to fulfil what he thought he was supposed to in the same way that Ennis did. Again, this happened in the intervening 4 years before the reunion and the affair really begins. I agree that Jack only went to Mexico as a result of the rejection from Ennis, but I disagree that this was just about having intimacy with someone that was like Ennis. The more important point is that he would have moved in with Ennis in a flash if he had the chance. To me, Jack was gay but was locked into his situation simply because of Ennis' reluctance to commit.
In my mind, two men who are in love means that they're gay. It's like that saying: if it quacks has feathers and swims in a pond, it's probably a duck.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you Chris, because I almost had similar personal experience before. If we want to use labels, then I'm 100% gay. If we don't want to use labels, then I'm 100% attracted to men only, emotionally and physically. But at one point in my life, I contemplated marrying a women just to please my parents and my conservative sub culture. I believe Jack and Ennis were both "gay" by nature and "straight" by nurture, and were in a similar situation as I was. They just took it a step further by marrying while I didn't. The only thing that stopped me from marrying then was that I didn't want to ruin another person's life by eventually not loving her, and watching this movie reinforces that.
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