Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
One Man Men
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on September 08, 2006, 08:41:20 am ---Is this really an example of intollerence, or a victory of equality? I think in some ways lesbians enjoy more acceptance than gay men. I'm happy to be argued with, but I ask you, would the adoption outcome above been the same if it were two men???
Amanda? What do you think?
--- End quote ---
Heya,
I don't believe for a minute that lesbians are more accepted than gay men. Cultural attitudes and the kinds of homophobia leveled at men vs. women might be different but I truly don't believe there's more acceptance for lesbians (real lesbians I mean - refering to my post above... very different from horrible fantasy-lesbians... the product of a special and very nuanced form of homophobia). Years ago I was in a coming out support group for women only and our group leader used to talk about the issue of "compounded oppressions." This led to discussions of what it means as an individual to deal with all the misogyny that any and all women need to deal with combined with homophobia. And then this can be expanded if one happens to be of a different ethnic group, religion, etc. No. There's nothing easy about being a gay woman. I still wouldn't trade it for anything though. It's amazing how powerful all of this can be... the sense of oppression and the determination to not let it get you down...
For me the dominant concern is usually the misogyny first and then the homophobia. The two are very much interconnected for lesbians, but in lots of ways I find the misogyny to be much more degrading, horrible, infuriating and ever-present. I can go about my day to day life without many people guessing I'm a lesbian, but I always have to deal with the prejudices that all women face. This is just my take on the situation. I'm sure every lesbian would have different and personalized responses to this question.
I have no real knowledge or opinion on the specific issue of adoption that would be different or more informed than any of you. I haven't really thought too much about it since it hasn't been an issue in my life or in my friends lives (yet).
:-\
alec716:
--- Quote from: atz75 on September 06, 2006, 10:52:10 pm ---This anxiety about what true lesbianism means seems to come out when people (some straight men, some straight women, etc.) act like they don't understand how two women can really have sex. That, almost willful act of not-understanding reveals every aspect of cultural insecurity as far as I'm concerned.
--- End quote ---
Amanda, I very much like your phrasing here -- "almost willful act(s) of not understanding" provide the fertile soil for so very many acts of biogtry, IMHO. Thanks for pinpointing this link in the chain of intolerance.
(note: I tried putting square brackets around the "s" in "acts" to be all grammatically proper and ever'thing, but the forum software ended up putting a strike line through the rest of my text! Not that people do not occasionally want to strike out what I say, but that's another story. ;) )
jessiwrite:
I am only what, six months behind, lol. It's taken me about that long to get up enough nerve to post on forums. I've read every post of this thread tonight and some excellent ones. I agree with lots, disagree with some but have sure learned a heap.
I do not like labels and will not, don't even know if it's possible, to label Jack and Ennis. I know they only truly loved one person in their lives and that was each other.
The only post that bothered me a little was doubting Jake's sincerity, but everyone is welcomed to their opinions. I don't think he would lie for Focus after taking on that role, just doesn't seem in his character. I heard an interview where he said nearly those exact words.
They both enjoyed being with women, functioned fine with females, but their heart and soul didn't belong to those ladies. If they had never met could they have loved their wives and been happy, sexually and emotionally, I don't think we can know the answer to that. I'd bet my pony though that Ennis would never have had an ounce of attraction to a man if he had never known Jack.
And I feel all alone, missed so much, too late for the party.
jessi
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: jessiwrite on September 19, 2006, 02:14:20 am ---I am only what, six months behind, lol. It's taken me about that long to get up enough nerve to post on forums. I've read every post of this thread tonight and some excellent ones. I agree with lots, disagree with some but have sure learned a heap.
--- End quote ---
Hi Jessi, congratulations on taking the plunge! Well differences of opinion are part of what makes BetterMostians such and interesting group to be around. I don't think anyone was seriously accusing Jake of being insincere, or at least I wasn't, but I think I can safely accuse him of being a straight man who is just as susceptible to fear as the rest of us. Waaaay back in the beginning, no one knew if BbM was going to be accepted by the public or would turn into a C.E.M. (career ending move) for everyone involved. I completely understand that both Jake and Heath had to walk a fine line when being interviewed and describing the characters and their motivations. But there's no doubt that Focus decided to promote BbM with stills that only showed the men separately or on horseback or with the women. They too (Focus) didn't know how the film would be accepted so they went with what they knew and that's to be conservative with the gay issues and themes. For GLBT folk who constantly struggle with being accepted and/or the "covering" that comes with intolerance, any consolation or condition on the themes could be at best disappointing and at worst a betrayal. These are not pleasant thoughts however, so I simply keep reminding myself that we're all only human and just let them go, or simply go and watch BbM again and bask in the truth that lies in the performances.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on September 19, 2006, 05:16:13 am --- For GLBT folk who constantly struggle with being accepted and/or the "covering" that comes with intolerance, any consolation or condition on the themes could be at best disappointing and at worst a betrayal. These are not pleasant thoughts however, so I simply keep reminding myself that we're all only human and just let them go, or simply go and watch BbM again and bask in the truth that lies in the performances.
--- End quote ---
That's a good attitude, Chris. I completely understand what you mean about it feeling disappointing or like a betrayal. I think a good way to look at it is to keep in mind that Focus made the movie -- one that a lot of studios apparently wouldn't take on. And that if their marketing methods were questionable, their hearts probably were in the right place: they wanted the movie to draw the widest possible audience, and they felt that was the way to do it. I don't know if they were correct about that or not, but if so the blame mainly lies with the audience rather than the filmmakers. And the more people who see the film and can appreciate it, the less studios would have to rely on those tactics, hopefully, in the future.
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