Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
One Man Men
jessiwrite:
I know Focus had pushed what they thought would sell, Ang lee tried to down play gay sex (I don't know a better term, sorry) in the movie and was in line with Focus in the ads. I do believe the statemens the actors made were their own, whether it be about kissing or the character's sexuality. It was to them, and many more, first and foremost about the love the characters had for each other and sex being part of the love.
Jack did like women, and I saw lots of evidence of that, lots of it from waving to the girls in the stand to dancing with LaSHawn, the movie Jack may have been on that scale much more straight than even bi. The book Jack liked men more, I think, but still could enjoy being with a woman. Jake was playing the movie Jack, and there is a pretty big differecne in the two characters, from buck teeth, small frame to being gay or straight. Jake played the character straight, a man who fell in love with a man. He didn't go all the way to Mexico for sexual relief. Ang Lee directed him as gay, he believed Jack to be gay and he saiid he got the performance he wanted. Jake's Jack came through, to me, more clearly as Ang's.
jessi
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: atz75 on September 06, 2006, 10:52:10 pm ---I just feel like elaborating) is that there's a vast difference between straight male fantasies of woman-on-woman action (of the sort you mention, a la Married With Children and countless other pop culture references such as Howard Stern, etc. and porn, etc.) and the true threat/ fear that real and actual lesbianism brings out culturally... which is the fear of women being completely independent of men in terms of being self-sufficient in terms of supporting ourselves AND EVEN sexually
--- End quote ---
You bet. That's why the Al Bundys of the world find lesbian sex acceptable "as long as there's a man watching" - it's still in that comfortable (to them) familiar context of a man being involved and getting sexual satisfaction out of it.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: jessiwrite on September 19, 2006, 12:51:39 pm ---Ang lee tried to down play gay sex (I don't know a better term, sorry) in the movie
--- End quote ---
Do you mean Ang did this in marketing or in the actual movie? In the movie, and I guess this is all in the eye of the beholder, I think he played it up fairly well. Half an hour in, there's a semi-explicit sex scene. The scene doesn't shift to the outside of the tent or anything coy. It was like, take it or leave it, this is what the movie's about.
What he did in interviews or marketing I'm not as familiar with.
--- Quote --- He didn't go all the way to Mexico for sexual relief.
--- End quote ---
I'm curious, what do you feel he did go to Mexico for, Jessi?
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on September 08, 2006, 08:41:20 am ---Hi there Marge_Innavera, so tell me, who is this dominant group? Do you mean straight men? Can they really be considered dominant? Strange, I always saw them as victims of their own narrow minds.
--- End quote ---
It might be that straight heterosexual men aren't the dominant group; that is, if you live on another planet. My statement was not ambiguous.
--- Quote ---Is this really an example of intollerence, or a victory of equality?
--- End quote ---
I tend to agree with some of the other posters who replied; that there's somewhat more tolerance but that this is rooted in the perception of women, and by extension their sexuality, as being of lesser importance.
--- Quote --- I'm happy to be argued with, but I ask you, would the adoption outcome above been the same if it were two men???
--- End quote ---
In this case it would have, as the legal basis was the nullifying of anti-sodomy laws that were still on the books; and added to that the specific standards for foster parents. But in terms of PR it might have been fortunate that this case, a landmark one for my state, involved two women.
The Attorney General's office in Missouri did a lot of stamping and peeing on trees following that decision, one spokesperson even saying that they were going to insist that the childrens' parents have the right to object to their children being fostered by gays. A representative of the State department of families and children wrote a very sharp rebuke to that in the Kansas City Star, pointing out that in the vast majority of cases children are being fostered because the parents are a threat to the child's health, safety and welfare. They were not, consequently, going to have any say in what foster homes their children would go to.
jessiwrite:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on September 19, 2006, 01:33:43 pm ---Do you mean Ang did this in marketing or in the actual movie? In the movie, and I guess this is all in the eye of the beholder, I think he played it up fairly well. Half an hour in, there's a semi-explicit sex scene. The scene doesn't shift to the outside of the tent or anything coy. It was like, take it or leave it, this is what the movie's about.
What he did in interviews or marketing I'm not as familiar with.
I'm curious, what do you feel he did go to Mexico for, Jessi?
--- End quote ---
I think he and Focus made sure they were in line with each other. I think he gave us no more then he thought he must, concernting the m/m sex, and made sure he added m/f sex enough to perhaps ease more people. After the reunion we have to really use our imaginations or sump'in, to feel they had sex. In the book, last time together, she makes it clear they had sex and it was still passionate, in the movie they are far enough apart in front of that fire to have to reach an arm's length to take the pot and in the tent there are no signs of anything other than quietly going to sleep. The arm over shoulder lets me know Ennis is fond of him, but sure no sparks except in my head.
It isn't just about two boys/young men being in love and hot for each other, it covers many more years and I feel, by so downplaying the sex, he took a lot away from their relationship.
I think Jack went to Mexico because he had a brokenheart, loss hope and been cruely rejected. If it had been Ennis he'd probably pounded his hand into the dashboard, gone to a bar and try to give pain to get lots of pain. Going to that hooker was probably much more painful for Jack, how it must of hurt. And yeah, some spite in it too I bet, but I don't think it was for the sex.
It is a joy to be discussing Jack and Ennis, a pure joy. All this is purely my thoughts, I tend to get passionate with these boys, please I never mean any disrespect to anyone, ever.
jessi
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