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Our BetterMost Community => The Polling Place => Topic started by: David In Indy on September 25, 2007, 12:34:08 am

Title: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: David In Indy on September 25, 2007, 12:34:08 am
I think it was an excellent idea. And I fully support the University's decision to let him speak. Free speech is probably the freedom we are most proud of as Americans. Frankly I'm a bit angry at how the Republican Party is acting. They are throwing fits about it. And apparently the Republican Party (along with Fox News) is appalled at the amount of money this country has spent protecting him since he has arrived here. They said we should send Iran the bill. I wonder how much money other countries have spent protecting OUR president?

I think it was a good idea. Yes, the man is a terrorist and a dictator. His government executes homosexuals and journalists and abuses women's rights. But I'm interested in what he has to say. And I have always felt it is better to engage in dialogue with our enemies, rather than ignore them. Problems have never been solved by sweeping them under the carpet and pretending they don't exist.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: dot-matrix on September 25, 2007, 01:40:09 am
*snip

I think it was a good idea. Yes, the man is a terrorist and a dictator. His government executes homosexuals and journalists and abuses women's rights. But I'm interested in what he has to say. And I have always felt it is better to engage in dialogue with our enemies, rather than ignore them. Problems have never been solved by sweeping them under the carpet and pretending they don't exist.

We said David I concur
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Lynne on September 25, 2007, 01:51:34 am
I agree that it was a good idea.  I even thought that the introduction by the president of Colombia University was a bit too hostile.  I don't think he misrepresented anything, but it put the man on the defensive from the get-go.  Not a way to encourage dialog, IMO.  Yet, being put in this position seemed to result in Ahmadinejad backing down from some of his more ridiculous assertions and added qualifications.  For instance, he backed off his denial of the very existence of the Holocaust and instead questioned the direct link it should bear on Palestinian/Israeli issues today, which I think is a much more reasonable place to start a discussion.

I don't follow much of this as closely as I should, but I've long suspected that at least some of the 'nonsense' rhetoric we get from his speeches are meant to consolidate his support in Iran.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: David In Indy on September 25, 2007, 02:05:17 am
Surprisingly the Iranian people are overwhelmingly Pro American which came as a shock to me. I have an Iranian friend who told me most Iranians (about 85%) are pro US/Western. They just have to be very careful who they admit it to...
...
And I hope to see more of this. Maybe if we can all sit down and talk, perhaps we can work out our differences and someday there will be peace in the world.

I admit I'm a dreamer, but this is my wish.  :)

Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Rayn on September 25, 2007, 04:57:41 am
It's great that he was invited to speak, but the way he was introduced was really unnecessary.  Everyone knows about his mistaken views and beliefs, but it was in extremely poor taste, even if honest, to invite a person as a guest then treat him in a hateful manner.  We should be pursuing diplomacy and enlightenment.  We could be helping him to see what we see and understand us instead of insulting him.  That just makes matters worse.  The president of Columbia was not only rude, but struck me as bit "dense" not to have understood the opportunity he had to better relations between our two countries, but instead of one dumbass on stage, there were two.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Rayn on September 25, 2007, 04:59:23 am
PS... I'm wondering what this has to do with the movie!   LOL!
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Lynne on September 26, 2007, 12:17:43 am
Surprisingly the Iranian people are overwhelmingly Pro American which came as a shock to me. I have an Iranian friend who told me most Iranians (about 85%) are pro US/Western. They just have to be very careful who they admit it to...
...
And I hope to see more of this. Maybe if we can all sit down and talk, perhaps we can work out our differences and someday there will be peace in the world.

I admit I'm a dreamer, but this is my wish.  :)

Sure enough...the Iranians/Persians I know all live here in the US now, but that's the feeling I get from them too.  And don't feel lonely, I was just quoting John Lennon's Imagine a day or two ago in that favorite Beatles thead.... 

It's great that he was invited to speak, but the way he was introduced was really unnecessary.  Everyone knows about his mistaken views and beliefs, but it was in extremely poor taste, even if honest, to invite a person as a guest then treat him in a hateful manner.  We should be pursuing diplomacy and enlightenment.  We could be helping him to see what we see and understand us instead of insulting him.  That just makes matters worse.  The president of Columbia was not only rude, but struck me as bit "dense" not to have understood the opportunity he had to better relations between our two countries, but instead of one dumbass on stage, there were two.

I agree with you, Rayn, especially the more I think about it.  I see the introduction as a violation of the inviolate guest/host relationship - Colombia invited HIM, after all.

PS... I'm wondering what this has to do with the movie!   LOL!

Sure it does - all sorts of themes like promoting tolerance and communication and understanding!  ;) :-*
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: ifyoucantfixit on September 26, 2007, 02:19:07 am

       I think myself that it was great to have him come here, and speak..It allows us to
see his lies and the over exagerations that he uses.
       I also think that the president of Columbia was out of line in how he attacked him in the introduction.  As others have stated, its a tremendous breach of etiquette to invite someone to your home, and then attack them with harshness and slander.
       If you want to use those kinds of thougts towards a person, do it in another venue..I thought it was highly rude, if nothing else.  Bad taste what ever you want to call it.
       I was embaressed.  I dont like the man, dislike every thing he stands for, and his abuse of human rights as well as his own religious laws...but having said that, are we now taking the George Bush and Dick Cheney way of acting, losing all of our self respect and courtesy, and fair treatment to guests...No matter how distasteful.  I dont think he should have been invited, if that is how they were going to act.

    Kind of proving once again "if you lay down with dogs.  You rise up with fleas."
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Rayn on September 26, 2007, 04:41:25 am

Lynne said,

"Sure it does - all sorts of themes like promoting tolerance and communication and understanding!"  ;) :-*




Rayn replied,

"Ok, I see, and agree." 
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Shasta542 on September 26, 2007, 06:29:19 am
What were his goals for the visit to the U.S.?
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Kerry on September 30, 2007, 11:43:56 pm

(http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o126/kez4oz/0079.jpg)
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on May 30, 2008, 08:44:51 pm
Why let a murderer speak at a place for education ?
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on May 30, 2008, 08:53:59 pm
He murdered not only hundreaths, but thousands of gay men in his country, and that is his FREEDOM ONLY, and NOT the ones killed only because they were gays !!

Where is the FREEDOM of those he murdered ?
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on August 03, 2008, 10:11:53 am
Why give credit to a murderer ?
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: optom3 on August 03, 2008, 11:32:13 am
Why give credit to a murderer ?

No one is giving credit to a murderer, I suppose what people hope is that by attempting to understand the people who promote such ideas we may be better able to do something about it.
It is a 2 way thing a well, in that if some people do have even the slightest sympathy for the man, then perhaps when they see the words come out of his mouth directly, they will change their opinion.They cannot then blame papers or journalists for twisting words..
The vast majority of Iranians cannot stand him, but are too frightened to speak out, for fear of their lives.I examined a cardiac surgeon back in England who had fled Iran because of his views and was therefore in fear of his life.It was very very sad to see an intelligent, articulate man on the verge of tears.He just wanted to go back "home"
He feared he would never in his lifetime see his country again.
I have no sympathy or empathy with any form of extremism, be it religious, political or other.But by its nature the extremism is in the minority. I do not see how we can go into a country and kill thousands of innocent people in the hopes of getting maybe 10 hard core extremists.
We all get so wound up about what is going on overseas, yet we have our own forms of extremism and pure undiluted hatred on our own shores.I have heard intelligent middle class people here in Florida spout such anti gay filth  as they live here behind our protective gates.These people claim to be educated, but they are not.They have tunnel vision in its extreme form.
I have had to work long and hard with my oldest son, who started to pick up the evil gay bashing dogma at school.Finally I have got through to him, by pointing out that many people consider all those with mental illness should be "put down".That would mean both him and me should be put out of our misery.Indeed that is exactly what Hitler did.
There is evil throughout the world and one way to try and stamp out evil is by educating, example and showing that there is a better way.Should we not try to lead by example.I know it is a liberalist wishy washy thing,but before we look across the water and start throwing stones, should we not look in our own backyards first.
I can think of plenty of middle class white Americans and British who have zero tolerance of gays,indigenous tribes, any religion bar their own.First set our own houses in order,before looking elsewhere.I think the single most important sentence in the bible is, let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
I do not condone any of the evil that goes on in the middle or far east.But equally I do not condone a lot of what goes on in western civilisation either.
I find it hard to be completely self righteous as I have not live a completely blame free life myself.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on August 03, 2008, 03:41:46 pm
Merci, yes thanks optom !

Would you invite an known terroist to talk at an university ?

May I ask ?

Au revoir,
hugs!
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: brokeplex on August 03, 2008, 03:52:05 pm
I think that it is absurd to invite someone who has pledged to destroy the US and Israel to speak anywhere in either country.

If it is a good idea to invite Aquavelvajob to speak here in the US in 2008, then perhaps it would have been a good idea for the US to have extended an invitation to Adolf Hitler to speak in an American university sometime in the years before WWII.

"Say 'Dolphy, what's up with the book burnings, glass breaking, and beatings in your country?"

What really is the difference between these two bigoted, murdering thugs? One commanded a powerful industrialized nation, the other wishes to do so.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on August 03, 2008, 03:56:03 pm
Merci brokeplex !

You well illustrated your post and point.

Maybe you can point out that Mahnoud    Ahmadinejad,             is like China too ?

Au revoir,
hugs!
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: brokeplex on August 03, 2008, 04:04:39 pm
I think that Aquavelvajob and the Iranian mullahs are far, far, worse than the rulers in China! The Chinese dictators are not our friends, but I do not see them as plotting our ultimate demise.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on August 04, 2008, 10:08:32 pm
Both bring dope into our countries ??
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on October 15, 2008, 06:19:21 pm
Does someone want to invite him again?

Note that I do not want him in our democratic countries!

Do you?
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: injest on October 15, 2008, 07:15:51 pm
Why not? He will be having supper at the White House as soon as Obama gets in!

Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on October 15, 2008, 07:22:32 pm
Oh !
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: David In Indy on October 15, 2008, 11:33:18 pm
Why not? He will be having supper at the White House as soon as Obama gets in!



Nobody will be inviting him to the White House Jess. That will never happen. Although I am in favor of talking to our enemies. I always have been. :)

Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: injest on October 15, 2008, 11:35:41 pm
Nobody will be inviting him to the White House Jess. That will never happen. Although I am in favor of talking to our enemies. I always have been. :)



well where you think they are gonna talk? I think they will talk in the White House..do you think it is wise for him to go there? I dont'. I don't trust Admawhoever..
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: David In Indy on October 15, 2008, 11:42:03 pm
There are plenty of places for them to talk. It doesn't have to be at the White House. They could even meet in a neutral country if they wished. I just don't believe in isolating these countries. It really hasn't worked very well in the past.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: injest on October 15, 2008, 11:46:09 pm
There are plenty of places for them to talk. It doesn't have to be at the White House. They could even meet in a neutral country if they wished. I just don't believe in isolating these countries. It really hasn't worked very well in the past.

Switzerland maybe?

you remember Hitler? and appeasement? I don't think we will be able to change their minds about us, David.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Brown Eyes on October 15, 2008, 11:47:06 pm
well where you think they are gonna talk? I think they will talk in the White House..do you think it is wise for him to go there? I dont'. I don't trust Admawhoever..


I don't understand where you got this impression that any kind of meeting would happen at the White House?  ???


When Obama (or anyone) talks about diplomacy it doesn't even necessarily mean that the president himself would be involved.  Even within the Bush administration (an administration very resistent to a lot of diplomacy) there have been talks with unfriendly countries... and usually this is done between diplomats such as the Secretary of State or other such figures.


Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: injest on October 15, 2008, 11:51:01 pm

I don't understand where you got this impression that any kind of meeting would happen at the White House?  ???


When Obama (or anyone) talks about diplomacy it doesn't even necessarily mean that the president himself would be involved.  Even within the Bush administration (an administration very resistent to a lot of diplomacy) there have been talks with unfriendly countries... and usually this is done between diplomats such as the Secretary of State or other such figures.




but Obama says he will have meetings himself. NOT Sec of State (which I really don't mind at all) but for all his faults, Kissinger knows his stuff and he says that meeting with the President gives a sense of legitimacy to the other person's cause..

I dont like the idea of helping Ahmadinejad
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Clyde-B on October 15, 2008, 11:55:50 pm
Switzerland maybe?

you remember Hitler? and appeasement? I don't think we will be able to change their minds about us, David.

Diplomacy doesn''t mean appeasement.  It's helpful to talk to people first hand to find out what they want instead of having experts try to guess what they want.  Knowing what they want doesn't mean they'll necessarily get it, or we'll want to give it to them.  The point of diplomacy is to know your adversary.

If something can be worked out that's fine.  But it's not always possible.  But people usually come away knowing better what they're up against.

Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: David In Indy on October 15, 2008, 11:58:49 pm
but Obama says he will have meetings himself. NOT Sec of State (which I really don't mind at all) but for all his faults, Kissinger knows his stuff and he says that meeting with the President gives a sense of legitimacy to the other person's cause..

I dont like the idea of helping Ahmadinejad

I don't remember hearing him say that Jess. I remember hearing him say he would be willing to talk with some of our enemies - "he" meaning his administration. At least that is the way I interpreted it.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: injest on October 16, 2008, 12:02:55 am
I don't remember hearing him say that Jess. I remember hearing him say he would be willing to talk with some of our enemies - "he" meaning his administration. At least that is the way I interpreted it.

there was a big thing a few weeks ago when he was saying that Kissinger agreed with him about the meetings but then Kissinger came out and said NO, he did not agree, that he thinks the President should only meet with certain people....OTHER people could only meet with people in lower positions.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: David In Indy on October 16, 2008, 12:08:48 am
there was a big thing a few weeks ago when he was saying that Kissinger agreed with him about the meetings but then Kissinger came out and said NO, he did not agree, that he thinks the President should only meet with certain people....OTHER people could only meet with people in lower positions.

:-\ :-\

I never heard about that before. Where have I been?

In any event I highly doubt Senator or rather in this case President Obama would invite President Ahmadinejad to the White House. That would go over like a fart in church in this country and I'm quite sure he would know better than to pull a stunt like that Jess.
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: David In Indy on October 16, 2008, 12:10:47 am
Diplomacy doesn''t mean appeasement.  It's helpful to talk to people first hand to find out what they want instead of having experts try to guess what they want.  Knowing what they want doesn't mean they'll necessarily get it, or we'll want to give it to them.  The point of diplomacy is to know your adversary.

If something can be worked out that's fine.  But it's not always possible.  But people usually come away knowing better what they're up against.



Exactly Clyde! :D

Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on December 31, 2008, 07:33:51 pm
Is he now a member?
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: Artiste on December 31, 2008, 07:35:09 pm
Is he in the USA to-day?
Title: Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University. Good Idea?
Post by: David In Indy on December 31, 2008, 07:43:47 pm
Is he now a member?


Who?