BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Brokeback Mountain Open Forum => Topic started by: Artiste on October 07, 2007, 10:21:05 am
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I repeat: how to replace too much booze in the gay world??
Many gay men go to bars or drink at home. Too many!! To me, that needs to be changed.
How??
Hugs!!
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Hugs!!
You anwered your own question!!!! ;D
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Any other ways??
??
Hugs!!
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Any other ways??
??
Hugs!!
This is a good question and certainly not unique to the gay world. People of all stripes get waylaid by too much booze. Some good replacements: exercise, socializing (one does not need to drink in order to have a good conversation with another; in fact the opposite effect happens), enjoying the outdoors, literature, spirituality, art, philosophy, cooking, gardening, taking care of others and volunteer work, study, home improvement, hobbies, art, music, performing, sports and recreation, travel, reading, movies, in fact, the whole process of living!
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Right you are friend Lee!!! The society at large thinks in terms of the fact you cant
have a good time unless you are drinking. It is not unique to the gay world...I know for a fact
I have often felt like I was an outsider, simply because I dont drink...? :'(
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Both of you have great thoughts on this subject.
I think that boozing to have a good time must be a myth or ways, that needs to be changed to: have a REAL GOOD TIME!!
Of course, each individual can do as you mention... vary his/her life! But one wants sex... and too many find booze to have it! And to find another for that!
I now stay away from booze and boozers!!
I feel that gays could, and should, organise more into groups like baseballers I saw once in Toronto; like one or more gay men who organizised a Sunday afternoon tea and so many came; only two examples.
Instead of seeking booze to communicate to find buddy/sex/lover/and/or pal, in bars or at home, yes one can create like I do creating paintings alone or with another or others. Can you give more examples?
Hugs!!
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In many larger cities there are more outlets such as those you mentioned for gay people to socialize. I remember the first time I went to a Pride even I was amazed, I had never seen some of those people in the daylight before.
Exercize is a good thing too, it boosts the sense of well being and counteracts the depressing effects of alcohol. I'll take a hot sweaty man over a drunk well dressed one anytime.
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In many larger cities there are more outlets such as those you mentioned for gay people to socialize. I remember the first time I went to a Pride even I was amazed, I had never seen some of those people in the daylight before.
Exercize is a good thing too, it boosts the sense of well being and counteracts the depressing effects of alcohol. I'll take a hot sweaty man over a drunk well dressed one anytime.
very good point! About 7 years ago,my doctor FORCED me to exercise in order to reduce killer cholesterol and deal with depression....and I have found to my delight that I felt so much better, hardly ever drink, and I sure do like the men that I meet jogging, walking, cycling, etc.
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Thanks brokeplex and Shakesthegfround!!
Great! Great! Are your thoughts!!
Any more??
Hugs!!
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This is from a fictional storyline about gay characters (Jules & Robin) from Suz Brockmann's HOT TARGET and FORCE OF NATURE, but it makes real life sense to me. Robin is an alcoholic; his mother was an alcoholic so he has a genetic-predisposition toward alcoholism anyway. Robin drinks because he's in denial of his true nature, his homosexuality. He goes on a journey from lying to himself, through admitting he is gay to himself but remaining in the closet to all but a couple of trusted friends and family. He feels like the success of his career depends on him staying in the closet. But eventually he accepts himself, comes out, and embraces sobriety. He no longer needs alcohol to help him numb feelings for which he has no other outlet.
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Thanks Lynne!
That is a wonderful story!
More like that one?
Hugs!!
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Other ways?
Hugs!
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Thanks Lynne!
Great example!
I should NOT be surprised that so far 87 read this, but only about 4 replied to this question. It is obvious that gay men love their booze and want to continue that; that is for some, which is too many!!
And too many think that they are NOT boozers?
Hugs!
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People get soused because they can't deal with their feelings honestly and consciously. Alcohol gives them the excuse to say things and do things they would not feel comfortable with while sober. And when it comes to the gay scene, it's not just the booze--note the blaring aural overload of the music they play in the bars, so loud you can't even hear yourself think, much less have a conversation with another.
People are afraid of each other--they are afraid of themselves. I can tell you one thing--one simple thing--that would revolutionize the world, regardless of who you are, man or woman, gay or straight or anything in between. Look into another person's eyes...deeply, lingeringly, softly, and compassionately. See the person before you as the person they are, not the person you want them to be. Honor their humanity, and see your own humanity reflected back in their eyes. Do this with one person--it could be anyone--and I think you might be amazed at the results. This is one way to move away from alcohol and other chemical crutches or replacements for genuine human contact.
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Thanks moremojo!
That is a good idea! I can nearly never do look into another person's eye! I try to do so at times, rarely!
I wonder if the poopers go with booze?
Hugs!
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I wonder if the poopers go with booze?
Sure, poppers are yet another chemical crutch (or enhancement, if one is in a generous mood).
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I've always thought that booze et al were painkillers or relaxants.
The question "What hurts?" or "Why are you so tense?" doesn't seem to get asked very often.
And the best painkiller/relaxant for me has always been a warm hug, a shoulder to cry on, or a genuinely sympathetic and interested ear.
Somehow those simple things are hoarded like they were in short supply.
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Somehow those simple things are hoarded like they were in short supply.
All the more reason for us to take the initiative and be that shoulder for someone to cry on, to be the sympathetic and interested ear for someone in need. By giving friendship and genuine contact, we often find ourselves receiving these very things. It's like that Beatles song..."And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make."
:)
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All the more reason for us to take the initiative and be that shoulder for someone to cry on, to be the sympathetic and interested ear for someone in need. By giving friendship and genuine contact, we often find ourselves receiving these very things. It's like that Beatles song..."And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make."
:)
I agree.
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Thanks, thanks moremojo and Clyde-B!!
Yes, too many gay men still use poppers with or without booze!! When I mention that I do not to continue sex if poppers are used, I am sad especially when such refuse from keeping on taking it! Too many do not get it on, because of poppers or booze!! Poppers destroy health early too!!
And am glad that you mention such enjoyable ways to really live life Clyde-B! We must keep on saying with joy those things, so more can enrich their lives and ours!!
What do you think guys??
Hugs! Hugs!
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What do you think guys??
I think we're all on the same wavelength and on the right path, Artiste.
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Everyone that knows me knows I love hugs. And I agree with you they are a great way to
connect to others. You give and receive at the same time. How better can we do in this life.
My maternal grandmother taught me to hug...Man oh man could she hug....
Heres a big hug for all !!!!!!!!! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS++++++++++++++++++++++}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
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Wonderful, wonderful you guys!!
It used to be seen were some articles against poppers as possibly helping AIDS! Maybe gay organisations should or could accentuate thus again?? Plus that of booze.
I recall that Coors beer was ANTI-GAY firing gay men who worked for them; I know that this booze nut had to re-think their ways because we gays boycotted them and Coors nearly went under!! I wonder why gay men purchase now that booze? I do not anymore.
Do you think our gay organisations should tell about booze??
Hugs!!
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Everyone that knows me knows I love hugs. And I agree with you they are a great way to
connect to others. You give and receive at the same time. How better can we do in this life.
My maternal grandmother taught me to hug...Man oh man could she hug....
Heres a big hug for all !!!!!!!!! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS++++++++++++++++++++++}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Thanks Janice,
Ain't Gramma's great!
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Wow!
I feared always hugs!!
And need to create hugs my way!!
Hugs!
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I think too that it is not only a matter of alcohol being so important to gay people, but a matter of moderation.
You take a group of people who have been, or spend a lot of their time isolated, comming together to be theirselves, they want to celebrate, but sometimes take it too far. I see nothing wrong is a drink or two or three, as the case may be. Sometimes it is the social lubricant needed to open up. Look at Jack and Ennis and the pint they consumed, that left him with a top grade head ache the next morning.
Alcohol has a place in the scheme of things, but when it exceeds that place it destroys. SO replace it,no. Replace our attitudes, that is the way to go.
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We have had one or more coffee houses become popular gay hangouts in our community. However, no one goes to a coffee house at midnight on a Saturday night to get laid. As long as so much of gay life revolves around bars, I think replacing booze is a lost cause. :(
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We have had one or more coffee houses become popular gay hangouts in our community. However, no one goes to a coffee house at midnight on a Saturday night to get laid. As long as so much of gay life revolves around bars, I think replacing booze is a lost cause. :(
I think you can still get laid without booze.
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Let's not propagate the myth and stereotype that all gay men and women drink and do illicit drugs more than anyone else. There is and always has been a large faction of the gay community that have no interest in gay club, yet still have a drink now and then. It's hard enough dispelling all those silly stereotypes without giving them additional credence here.
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There are more straight bars than gay ones. Perhaps the booze problem is a people problem, not a gay one.
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Thanks Jeff Wrangler, brokeback_dev, Scott, Shakestheground, and all others!!
It is great to hear from you!! It is a known fact that Coors beer would NOT have survive in the USA without the GAY MEN boozing!! Therefore, that too many gay men supporting such ANTI-GAY co's scares me!! Plus, the health of too many gays are also drained! I have lost too many of my friends to such booze; they are now dead and I miss them!!
Because there is now a client in the gallery, will come back later to read your news,
hugs!
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I think you can still get laid without booze.
I never said you couldn't, but tell that to the gay male masses. :(
My point was that people go to the bars to meet tricks. Around here, they do have the option of buying cans of soda or bottles of water to drink at ridiculously inflated prices, but many, many men don't go that route. They go right for the liter mugs of lager.
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Bars are still a primary venue through which gay man can hook up, and in some communities may essentially be the only option (barring potentially dangerous or legally perilous avenues such as cruising the parks or tearooms). And bars exist to sell alcohol, and people drink alcohol to loosen up and feel less inhibited (I don't know about anyone else, but cruising has always made me extremely nervous). So alcohol will likely remain a central factor in many gay people's lives for the forseeable future. Myself though, I will continue to opt for the colas and orange juice at inflated prices (insofar as I can even imagine myself going out clubbing in the future).
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Alcohol is only a problem when people abuse it...Or drink it and drive, or go home and
abuse their families..There is no excusing either of those activities.
By itself it is no better or worse than the person who drinks it..Moderation is fine. It loosens up the person, and if that person is shy and introverted, if it gives them easier rein to mix and feel comfortable...Why not.
However having said that. I dont see in my limited experience, that gays or straights, are any different, when it comes to use of alcohol....There are drunks in both groups, and T- totallers in
both as well. Most people drink in social situations. And why not, if they want to do so...If they
choose not to do so..That should be ok as well....Live and let live...no judgements, or recriminations.
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Interesting replies and thanks!!
It remains that alcohol is not good for you at all; it even burns the brain cells!!
Plus creates bad habits of drinking booze, plus others dangers.
Worst is that it worsens even sex; how many can NOt get it on then... and become worst more and more!!
That is too evident with all my experiences sexually with others!!
It remains that alcohol should and could be replaced, as some ideas you give; any others??
Hugs!!
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It is a known fact that Coors beer would NOT have survive in the USA without the GAY MEN boozing!! Therefore, that too many gay men supporting such ANTI-GAY co's scares me!! Plus, the health of too many gays are also drained! I have lost too many of my friends to such booze; they are now dead and I miss them!!
I have been out for 30 years. I have gone into more gay bars than I care to remember, and done things in them that I would not care to do over again, but this is the first I have ever heard about gay men making Coors beer thrive in the USA. Again, I have to say, that this type pf propaganda simply perpetuates oppressive stereotyping.
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Thanks Scott!
It is a published fact that Coors could NOT survive without the gay market!! We gay men made Coors rich, we enrich such criminals who are ANTI-GAY!! We became poorer as gay culture, even accepted death, etc.; because of it!!
Finding such facts?
Hugs!1
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Thanks Scott!
It is a published fact that Coors could NOT survive without the gay market!! We gay men made Coors rich, we enrich such criminals who are ANTI-GAY!! We became poorer as gay culture, even accepted death, etc.; because of it!!
Finding such facts?
Hugs!1
try drinking "Lone Star", it is cheaper and the company is not owned by homophobes ---to my knowledge. well, yes I know it doesn't taste like Coors, but if it doesn't taste so good, you'll drink less!!
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I happen to know for a fact that the original DISTRIBUTOR of Coors Beer was not a homophobe. He had the entire western United States as his territory and was the man who popularised it outside of Colorado. He was an outstanding business man and one hell of a nice person. He was also an extremely NONJUDGEMENTAL GENTLEMAN. And I mean a GENTLEMAN, in the old sense of the word.
I knew him.
I liked him. :)
He liked ME. :D
He also told me I was drinking too much :-\ and at least switch to beer, suggesting Coors as a lighter beer. And MOSTLY, he told me to stop drinking because I couldn't handle it: he had seen me polish off an entire 5th of whiskey in under 2 1/2 hours. That man did NOT want me to drink at all, his suggestion that I get rid of hard liquor and drink beer was very well meant.
He KNEW I wasn't yet ready to stop drinking completely and was trying to lessen the damage I was doing to myself. :'(
He was right: I was quite alcoholic as a 20 year old. :-\
The purpose of Coors was to be the beer for people who did not want a beer belly, people who liked lighter brews. Also, for people who liked Colorado and the supposed purity of mountain water.
That distributor did very, very well financially--he was able to retire and sail all over the world by age 38. ;D :o ;D
Everyone in college drank Coors. When it first became popular, it was drunk by no one in NYC but college students and yuppies. I also remember when it arrived in NYC, where it was greeted with delight. 8)
Gay men in the City drank Rolling Rock. Being bisexual and NOT gay, being consciously not gay and continually irritated >:( by gay men who would not accept what I WAS and kept repeating Bisexual Is A Pitstop On The Highway To Gay, :o I would not have been caught DEAD with a Rolling Rock Beer.
Why?
Because I was not a gay man, and far too many gay men shit :( all OVERme and people just like me, demanding acceptance and respect for themselves!!! while continually mocking Bisexuals.
Like ME.
OK, granted, a LOT of people claimed they were Bi because they were too afraid to say they were gay: that was not OUR problem.
A lot of gay men said they were bisexual because they were on their way out of the closet.
Coldly stated, that was THEIR problem.
It was not OUR PROBLEM until those guys MADE it our problem: the treatment meted out to REAL bi men by ordinary gay men who would not give us the same respect they demanded for themselves most certainly was our problem and a big one. Every single bisexual--really bisexual --male i knew was hurt by it. :'(
Unfortunately we were and are the smallest of the sexual minorities, so nobody gave a damned. They still largely don't. :-X :o
If gay men had drunk Coors where I lived when I was 20 years old I wouldn't have touched it with my ten foot pole! Ever. I have never before heard that gay men 'made' Coors what it is, or that it is a "gay beer", but, when I was younger, if it HAD been a gay beer I'd never have drunk it.
And drink it I did, I even went on the Coors Brewery Tour and got completely ossified on experimental beers.
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To address the topic of how alcohol ravages gay men---and I am not 20 any longer>>>I am 50 and at peace with it all today even if the above doesn't much sound like it.....
Gay men AS A GROUP drink too fucking much.
Gay men as a group take too many damned drugs. Poppers aren't even considered drugs any longer by many gay men, their use is ubiquitous in the Gay lifestyle, they are everywhere and yes they are indeed a drug...
Cocaine...
Wierd drug combinations.
You name it.
AND Artiste, IMHO you are very very much correct if we are speaking of gay men AS A GROUP, and not as individuals! I want to emphasize here that I'm talking about gay men in 2007, as a group. And I am saying all this as an 'outsider'; just call me your friendly neighborhoo [Spiderman] Bisexual Sociological Observer ::) so to speak [rofl!]
Many many gay men do drink 'normally'.
Many, many do not drink at all, or infrequently.
Many many are in Alcoholics Anonymous.
What I have observed is this:
gay men sometimes find it very hard to sober up in "Gay Meetings" within AA because the entire 'Gay Lifestyle' pushes drinking and drug abuse. There is an above average relapse rate in --and this applies only to what I can vouch for and have myself seen in New York City and Denver-- the larger Gay AA groups. The recovery rate rises in the smaller Gay AA groups, where there is less bullshit [in the main] and one can often find a more serious attitude.
On the other hand many do sober up at the larger meetings but stop attending because they are like little 'ghettos' where one only meets gay people; there is no outside or larger influence, the sense of the AA community as a whole is broken... There are a lot I know who say they felt cut off and changed groups, in other words left the first big gay group which they sobered up in and found another smaller gay group-- or 'non-gay' group.
I know some who make a gay meeting once in a while, and attend 'non-special interest' [not gay] regular meetings most of the time.
A lot of recovering gay men whom I know have followed that path.
At the same time, there are those who go to nothing but Gay AA Meetings and do well at them. It is very individual!!!
Many others go to ordinary and basically mixed AA groups because they find it easier to sober up.
IMO a mixed group is by far the best. You get it all.
Substance Abuse is a central feature of the 'gay lifestyle'. It is one reason a lot of men 'opt out' of that lifestyle after a time, because they understand and realise it is self-destructive.
People can yell at me all they want but IMHO the so-called gay lifestyle is inherently destructive to gay men as human beings.
Period
Thank you for reading my rant: please throw all stones and arrows in the direction of Downtown Denver, Colorado, USA lol
*Reason For Edit: I got way aggravated. And added a few things. And found typos. And have probably made more!
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Thanks very much brokenbackjack!
You do detail and well... helping likely others, even gay men!
You were lucky to find such a distributor; however, you can find out that Coors was ANTI-GAY as that is a published fact. Because Coors fired gays when they found out one was (or could be likely too), the gay men boycotted Coors! May I repeat that Coors found out that it could NOT survive without the gay market, and so supposedly changed their ways; which news I do not believe... because if they were criminals before, they still are, it seems to me!!
Such beer cos do take avantage of the gays who are sad and therefore, push them to be alcoholics, seems evident to me!!
I think that too many gay men, bi-, others, drink beer!!Too many gay men do drink beer??
Hugs!
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I've never heard a word about any of this. Where was it published, and by who?
There are lots of published facts around--and half of them are made up.
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Just because something has been published does not necessarily mean it is true.. You have to have
the information that they have gleened and how they arrived at it. Where or not that information was
'unbiased and an honest result.. It is a fact, that every thing that is published is someones opinion. Without
criteria and numbers to back up that opinion...it is just that persons opinion. Not always the truth.
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Come now... if you are straight or gay or bi-, you know that there is discrimination around, especially against gay men in the work field!! ??
Get a hold of a gay guy who lost his job at Coors if you do not believe published facts!!
Why are you so pro-Coors??
Hugs!
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I'm neither pro nor anti, just never heard a word about it and neither has anyone else I know....
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Thanks brokebackjack!
Then find out more about it?
And maybe you will find too about other cos, booze or otherwise, which fire a gay man for being gay?
You do feel that there is to much boozing in the gay world right??
Hugs!
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Everyone in college drank Coors. When it first became popular, it was drunk by no one in NYC but college students and yuppies. I also remember when it arrived in NYC, where it was greeted with delight. 8)
Gay men in the City drank Rolling Rock. Being bisexual and NOT gay, being consciously not gay and continually irritated >:( by gay men who would not accept what I WAS and kept repeating Bisexual Is A Pitstop On The Highway To Gay, :o I would not have been caught DEAD with a Rolling Rock Beer.
ROFLMAO!
Ah, New Yorkers. ... :laugh:
Rolling Rock. Brewed from clean, fresh water in the Laurel Highlands of Pennsylvania.
Now everybody's drining Yuengling Lager--brewed in Pottsville! :o WTF?
I'll stick to scotch. ...
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Thanks Jeff Wrangler!
No booze for me... so rare now!!
I got something better: I will stick to a crotch!!
Is that the right spelling??
Hugs!!
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Unfortunately we were and are the smallest of the sexual minorities, so nobody gave a damned. They still largely don't. :-X :o
I actually believe that bisexual people constitute the majority of the human race. Very many people don't act out on or cultivate their latent bisexuality for a number of reasons, but I think there are far more of them than people who really are exclusively heterosexual or homosexual. I do think most people have a preference for one gender or another, but at the same time there is a bisexual potential within most of us.
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Thanks moremojo!
It could very well be that the majority of men on earth is bi!
One must wonder is one bi? Can that be one reason why gay men drink too much booze?
Hugs!
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I'm neither pro nor anti, just never heard a word about it and neither has anyone else I know....
I definitely remember hearing back in 1989/1990 that Coors was run by homophobes and to not purchase their product (not that that was an issue for a teetotaller like me). I can't vouch for the veracity of this claim, but the claim was definitely out there.
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Thanks moremojo!
You are right!
It seems to me that many articles were written about that?? In gay newspapers?
Hugs!
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I never actually saw anything in writing. This was all verbal advice that my peers on campus were touting.
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I got something better: I will stick to a crotch!!
Is that the right spelling??
Hugs!!
Great minds think alike, Artiste! ;D And yes, spelling (and sentiment) are both correct.
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Thanks moremojo!
And yes, maybe the gay world can replace booze with crotches??
At least, that is why we booze since we want a crotch?
Hugs!!
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I've looked it up online, and all I found are rumors. Nothing concrete at all.
I asked someone who is in a position to know. She said the Coors family who own the company are very conservative socially. There are also a number of gay men in that family. The 'heir', or one of the main heirs, is about 24 and in no way antigay. He IS heterosexual.
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So keep on searching brokebackjack!
The murderers (in WWII, islam to-day, etc.) of thousands, millions, of gay men from different countries still, many are living to-day, and are heterosexuals too!
The proof of Coors is out there... getting rid of gay men who worked for them, firing because they were gay men or they suspected that! Check out the gay newspaper of THAT time? And other gay organisations?
Hugs!
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This is a good question and certainly not unique to the gay world. People of all stripes get waylaid by too much booze. Some good replacements: exercise, socializing (one does not need to drink in order to have a good conversation with another; in fact the opposite effect happens), enjoying the outdoors, literature, spirituality, art, philosophy, cooking, gardening, taking care of others and volunteer work, study, home improvement, hobbies, art, music, performing, sports and recreation, travel, reading, movies, in fact, the whole process of living!
Lee, you have a great view of the world and many excellent ideas :) I wish you were running for president. I sure would vote for you in a second ;)
Jack
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Yes, I agree too!
Any other ways to replace booze?
And be much happier, as a gay man?
Hugs!
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Artiste, I would like to see the clinical and sociological research that corroborates your assertion that there is a higher incidence of alcoholism and substance abuse than in the general population.
It is very dangerous ground to tread on, when one chooses to take their own observations, and paint an entire faction of society with them. If that is the case, then I can state, with equal certainty, that I have seen a far higher incidence of alcoholism in the heterosexual community, than the homosexual community.
I find your generalizations regarding this issue to be very disparaging, and, once again, credence giving to the stereotypes that many of us have fought long and hard to prove wrong.
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I would be interested in the evidence for that as well. I'm certainly not an expert at alcohol and gay people, but when I was in SF it actually seemed to me that the people were drinking very responsibly compared to straight places I have been in. However, that may have been because of the particular group. I'm not sure about that.
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Thanks jstephens9, and thanks Scott!!
If you want to find out, then do so. I suggest you seek gay organisations and non-gay ones to find out if gay men booze more!! That should tells us something. I know that Coors could not keep those doors open after they fired gays for being only gays!! That is fact! Don't contradict me then if you find that out too!
Concerning booze, even if only a few lives were lost to booze, that would be too many to me, and to you too you two??
I lost lost many gay men friends to booze, and I wish I could still enjoy their laughs, their talks, their sharing, etc.; but can I as they are dead before their times?? !!
Booze, it is now noted by science destroy also brain cells, it seems to me that has been published lately. So, why like booze too much or at all? Is it not better to replace with it with good foods and good times??
Hugs, hugs!!
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On empirical evidence alone, just what I've seen I think it may well be true that gay community has a very high rate of alcohol abuse.
It is endemic in both the straight and gay community and/but from what I have seen myself, there is a higher incidence within the gay community. The social life of many many gay men is bar centered. I am not saying this is not the case with straight men; what I'm saying is that by and large, the Gay Bar is where many many gay men center their social life. It is where the younger, especially, members of the gay community GO. Straight young men do the same. They also have other outlets which gay young men often don't.
There is just SO MUCH abuse of alcohol in the gay community! Me, I am in recovery from alcohol, and the gay recovering people, men and women, whom I know will pretty much all agree and say the same, that there is more alcohol abuse on average within the gay community then the straight community. I know many many young gay males who are in recovery and'at sea': they don't know where to go to have a gay social life, bars being too dangerous for them to go to. How dangerous? They are in recovery>>>you go to enough bars and eventually you will find yourself struck drunk. The ones who vehemently deny it within BOTH communities, are very often defending their OWN abuse of alcohol.
But when it comes to Coors Beer, I have found absolutely nothing online about its' anti-gayness <? clumsy sentence, I know>
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Thanks brokebackjack! Very much so, and hugs too!!
I find your revealing statement as appealing: the thruth, and I accept gladly your sayings and you!! You seek now real happiness... and you will find it, may I suggest!!
1- Concerning Coors, I guess not much is on the internet because that came before we used emails!! Maybe more will be known facts when some will read our questions on that!!
2- Concerning too much boozing in the gay world, I am SURPRISED that the young gay males are drinking that much!! WE older males had no choice but to go to bars... and be SAFER there too; it was our CHURCH like area! But the young gay males have many CHOICES now, I hope. At least, the young and olders like I, can now use the internet to find and communicate with other gay men; plus find others as non-boozers, non-druggers, non-smokers, non-violence, non-cons, hopefully!
There was a small article in the daily a day or two ago that I glanced at while mother was reading the newspaper, as it headlined that: POLICE CHARGING GAYS IN PARK! Or something to that effect!
Here, even if the population is over 100,000, there is only one gay bar, plus it seems one gay park area!! I do NOT go to that gay park! I was told that it was gay... by a gay guy. Plus I read and was told that an older gay man nearly lost his life there as he went there often (all his life it seems), but was beaten and knifed and left for dead there, but he went to court charging the accused and returned afterwards to the park to have fun again and again!! I admire his guts!! His freedom!!
But such park activity are dangerous! So maybe gay bars LESS dangerous? A bit, but they are not and will tell you two stories about that if you like??
Must go get water from the lake, as the city main water line has been broken and this is the 2nd day!
Take care... brokebackjack!
Hugs! Hugs!
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Thanks jstephens9, and thanks Scott!!
If you want to find out, then do so. I suggest you seek gay organisations and non-gay ones to find out if gay men booze more!! That should tells us something. I know that Coors could not keep those doors open after they fired gays for being only gays!! That is fact! Don't contradict me then if you find that out too!
Concerning booze, even if only a few lives were lost to booze, that would be too many to me, and to you too you two??
I lost lost many gay men friends to booze, and I wish I could still enjoy their laughs, their talks, their sharing, etc.; but can I as they are dead before their times?? !!
Booze, it is now noted by science destroy also brain cells, it seems to me that has been published lately. So, why like booze too much or at all? Is it not better to replace with it with good foods and good times??
Hugs, hugs!!
I am asking you to provide the evidence. You made the assumptions, now I am asking you to submit the proof you have to back up your claims.
On empirical evidence alone, just what I've seen I think it may well be true that gay community has a very high rate of alcohol abuse.
This is what I was alluding to. I have been an out gay male for almost 30 years, and when I was younger, every gay person I came in contact with drank and used recreational drugs, but where was I coming into contcat with them? In bars and clubs. As I have grown out of that phase, the gay people I have come in contact show no greater propensity for alcohol or substance abuse that any other subset of society. So my empirical evidence would show quite the opposite.
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This is what I was alluding to. I have been an out gay male for almost 30 years, and when I was younger, every gay person I came in contact with drank and used recreational drugs, but where was I coming into contcat with them? In bars and clubs. As I have grown out of that phase, the gay people I have come in contact show no greater propensity for alcohol or substance abuse that any other subset of society. So my empirical evidence would show quite the opposite.
I wonder whether what's happening here is that our culture is changing? I don't have any empirical evidence, either, but I wonder whether we--"we" being gay men--don't have more opportunities for social interaction that don't involve bars than we did 30 years ago?
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...when I was younger, every gay person I came in contact with drank and used recreational drugs, but where was I coming into contcat with them? In bars and clubs. ] As I have grown out of that phase, the gay people I have come in contact show no greater propensity for alcohol or substance abuse that any other subset of society. So my empirical evidence would show quite the opposite.
When I was younger, all persons of our group/clique respectively all persons (or at least almost all) I met in bars, discos or pubs drank, smoked and used recreational drugs. I think that's connected to youth and the type of establishment, not to the sexual orientation of the persons.
But of course Jeff's question has to be included into consideration:
What opportunities for social interaction were (and are today) given for gay people to meet other gay people, that don't involve bars and the like?
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When I was younger, all persons of our group/clique respectively all persons (or at least almost all) I met in bars, discos or pubs drank, smoked and used recreational drugs. I think that's connected to youth and the type of establishment, not to the sexual orientation of the persons.
But of course Jeff's question has to be included into consideration:
What opportunities for social interaction were (and are today) given for gay people to meet other gay people, that don't involve bars and the like?
By and large, the opportunites for gay people to meet and interact are far more diversified than 20 or 30 years ago. When I first came out, you didn't tell anyone where you were going at night. Now there are all sorts of social groups that are readily accepted and available to gay people. Not hat long ago, I did a lot of work with groups aimed at helping gay teens come to terms tiwht their sexual identities, and I can say with great certainty that most fo those kids are head and shoudlers above where I was as a teen when it comes to understanding the ramifications of getting involved with alcohol and drugs.
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Thanks all!!
I see that this subject is revealing.
I am very pleased with your comments.
Pray you will all keep on suggesting ways to communicate without booze.. at least!
Hope you see it as important as I do?
Hugs!
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I can see both sides here and I'm not completely sure which one I would agree with. I have really not been involved with the gay world much at all until I got involved with the forums and the BBQ after seeing Brokeback. And I can't say that these represent the gay world since we have just as many straight people. I was at one time involved with the bars and the gay world, but I got away from it for several years. I was in a relationship and after that ended I pretty well stayed clear. I pretty much lived my life based around work, family and home. I will definitely say that the guy I was in the relationship with destroyed that and himself with alcohol and drugs. He actually got away from the alcohol, but that only seemed to make the drug part worse. However, I do not consider him typical of either the gay side or the straight side as far as alcohol (or drugs) are concerned. He was a drug addict, plain and simple, and it took a long time and was hard for me to admit that to myself. I was wearing rose colored glasses.
Thinking about bars before I disappeared, there was a lot of drinking and there were more drugs than I ever realized. There were definitely a lot of people with major problems with both. Everything pretty much did center around the bars although I do remember getting involved with a gay hiking and camping group. Some people had drinks or beer when we got everything sat up in the campsite, but it was not like a drunken party or anything. People had fun, talked, it was not about drinking or drugs. It seemed that there were too many other things to do.
That has been pretty much the same way with the two BBM events I have been too. There was always lots to do so everything was not centered around drinking. People had drinks, had beer, but again I did not see the amount of drinking I remembered from the bars. And surprisingly I have not even seen a hint of drugs. They may be there, but I sure have not seen or heard of them being around. Of course, I was very naive of that in my bar days so who knows.
Sundance, the gay cowboy/Country Western bar in San Francisco, was the first "gay" bar I had been to in a long time. People were getting drinks or beer, but it did not seem to me that it was the main event and I didn't see the types of things I remembered like people who were incredibly falling down drunk. But my few experiences with the gay world lately may not be enough to make any kind of judgement at all. As I say I have seen people drinking socially, but that is pretty much it. Now if I would have went to a different kind of bar in SF I may have seen a completely different side of things. I remember thinking when I was at Sundance that here I was at a gay bar in San Francisco. At one point in time I would have thought that would be completely wild. Of course I do believe that Sundance has an older crowd, it is not a teen type gay bar, so that could make a big difference.
I'm interested in hearing more about this topic from people.
Jack
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I think most of this topic would do much better as a discussion in Safe Haven. I'm not sure what most of this has to do with BBM's Open Forum. Maybe we can agree to split part of this topic into a new thread?
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Thanks jstephens9, Phillip, and others!!!
I think that this is OK here and can continue for those who want to do so!
I have realized that gay men here, as I am a gay man too, feel free to discuss this... now. Of course at times, it hurts! We can and do help each other, and others by talking FREELY!!
I am proud that this discussion is helping, in many ways. To many persons!
It is great to talk REAL!! ?? Let's continue...
hugs!!
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I think most of this topic would do much better as a discussion in Safe Haven. I'm not sure what most of this has to do with BBM's Open Forum. Maybe we can agree to split part of this topic into a new thread?
Good idea Phillip. I completely agree.
Jack
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Safe Heaven, in order to continue to booze as a subject, or ask this question in that thread?
In the BM film, the two main guys do booze.
And in to-day's gay world there are many booze places (probable too many), and even some booze as IN THE BM film (between two guys)?
Hugs!
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Artiste you can drink alcoholic beverages socially without boozing. If you remember the first scene in the bar in Brokeback, Jack talks about needing a lot of whiskey up on the mountain. I can't remember the exact words. That was a part of the movie and a part of the culture and time. It would have seemed weird if they would have been sitting around drinking lemonade. Anyway, the point is that alcohol can be used in moderation. It doesn't have to be one extreme (no drinks) to the other extreme (boozing). And people can go to bars which I assume you mean by booze places and have drinks socially. They don't have to get drunk.
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Thanks jstephens!
I still know that I lost many gay friends to such places with booze!! I miss them!
If you think that was that time in the BM movie, is it not also in to-day's gay world, booze as too much important?
We need to supply, effort and think of OTHER means to have us gays act and find another one WITHOUT booze?
Hugs!
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This subject still concerns me, very much !!
Does it to you??
What can be done to change booze to happiness ??
Au revoir,
hugs!
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I drink Artiste. I don't drink every night, but I do sometimes have a drink or two. It helps to relax me. I rarely drink to get drunk though.... well maybe EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE! lol
I sometimes take narcotic pain pills (vicodin) for my back and shoulder and when I take those obviously I cannot drink. But I enjoy a drink or two on Friday or Saturday night, just as long as I don't have to drive anywhere. :)
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a little drop now and then is certainly AOK! it is the overdoing of the "happy hour" that causes problems. :)
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What I am afraid of is what I have seen, as I used to go to bars, and not much activity there except to booze;
wonder how many did cruise or have fun ??
Of, course boozing at home might be better in some ways, but one must learn to cruise there too??
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What I am afraid of is what I have seen, as I used to go to bars, and not much activity there except to booze;
wonder how many did cruise or have fun ??
Of, course boozing at home might be better in some ways, but one must learn to cruise there too??
Well, I wouldn't necessarily consider a couple of drinks "boozing" Artiste. But 10 or 15 drinks, now that's definately boozing imo.
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at my age, two highballs knock me unconscious! ;D
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Better for you to have two low balls, for fun ??
ha! Ha!
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Still too much booze in the gay world ?
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Why so much booze ?
Are we not men ! Real men ? !!
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To me, a real man, does NOT need booze !
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Still, I found that too much booze was at an gay bar, last week, and some clients purchasing beer from a co. that is anti-gay !!
Did you know ?
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I still see too much booze at gay bars.
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The one noted, at least less booze is served now !
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And sex and other joys are becoming more important now there too !
Thank goodness !
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If more gays and others think, then more ways will be found to replace booze and drugs ??
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I am still concerned since lost of more gay friends and brother because of too much booze in the gay world ! You too is concerned ?
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Is booze still the main problem in the gay world ?
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Is booze still the main problem in the gay world ?
I don't really know since it is very unusual that I am out in the gay world. I thought the big thing in the gay world now is the gym so I'm not sure how booze fits into that. The two don't really go together well.
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Merci jstephens9
That is a good idea: replace booze by the gym !
More cruising at the gym ?
Au revoir,
hugs!
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I thought the gym was supposed to be for working out, but maybe I am wrong ;)
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Maybe, gays should open cruise gyms ?
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And have a tea house for cruising and friendships to start ?
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Since too many straights give Made in China toys and food which is poison too which kill their own children in the USA, Canada, etc.; Not many people care about that neither: how to replace booze in the gay world!
Shame!