BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Heath Ledger Remembrance Forum => Topic started by: mvansand76 on March 25, 2008, 04:27:14 pm
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You don't have to explain your choice, but you can if you want to.
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Heya Mel,
I voted for "I am disappointed in Jake and I feel that he should have said or written something about Heath's passing"... although I'd like to clarify that I'm not necessarily disappointed. I'm more perplexed. Sometimes I feel frustrated in this state of "not knowing." But, I'm not disappointed in Jake really. And, in the places where I've discussed this issue in JJJ and HHH and elsewhere, I don't want it to seem that I'm being negative about Jake or even really criticizing him. I still think he's fantastic and an important part of Brokie-hood, etc. But, the rest of the statement that I voted for here holds true for me. I do think he should write or say something about Heath. But, if he doesn't, I'm sure I'll be able to move on (and continue to like Jake as an actor/ personality, etc.). Having a statement from Jake would help me tremendously in terms of coming to a sense of closure about the tragedy with Heath. But, if we never get a statement from him, again, I'm sure I'll come to terms with that (without lingering "disappointment" directed towards Jake). I think the frustration I feel about this from time to time is a passing thing.
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I posted elsewhere my opinion that the erupting controversy and lashback about Jake in our fandom is unjustified and unfair to Jake. The main reason I feel this way is because I have been through the death of close family members and many friends, and have never issued any kind of condolence or statement about them, because I felt it was private and chose to keep those feelings to myself. I also do not attend funerals, and did not attend my father's or my sister's funeral. I suffered a lot of disrespect from people within my family for my choice, and yet I know that it did not reflect my personal feelings, which I chose to keep private.
I find it perfectly understandable that Jake, or anyone, chooses to keep such a deeply private expression to himself. He owes no one any explanation for it, any more than I owed anyone an explanation as to why I chose to mourn in private, and we should not take it out on him.
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I guess my statement would be a combination of the choices, more like......."I really don't feel that he owes us anything, BUT I am disappointed in Jake and I feel that he should have said or written something about Heath's passing".
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I hesitated between:
'I really don't feel that he owes us anything and I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing'
and
'I think it's weird that he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing, but I understand that he doesn't owe us anything'
[I chose the first one]
I am not disappointed. I think it's a little weird though. It might make him feel better too maybe. But that's probably just my thinking.
He doesn't owe us anything. I just hope he knows how to deal with his grief and that he can find closure somehow, some day.
j. U. d. E.
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well, i don't know how i feel. kinda wishy washy i guess. i am a little disappointed, but i don't necessarily agree that he doesn't owe us anything. we are his fan base, and being famous usually means doing things to merely please their fans. think about all the things fandom requires that i'm sure not every actor is paticularly keen on doing, but still do. i just dont' think it would've been that difficult to release something....anything. but i love jake, and i don't think about it much, and i have no disrespect for his grieving. he can do what he wants, and he won't lose me as a fan, but i think i think a lot of people, including myself, desire to know what he's thinking and feeling on the matter. so, sometimes i feel disappointed, but he's his own, and he can do as he sees fit. it's none of my business, but yes, i'd prefer to know what he would say.
i mean he's got to know that people are wondering, and almost every famous person has had do a thing or two to appease fans.
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.......I have been through the death of close family members and many friends, and have never issued any kind of condolence or statement about them, because I felt it was private and chose to keep those feelings to myself. I also do not attend funerals, and did not attend my father's or my sister's funeral. I suffered a lot of disrespect from people within my family for my choice, and yet I know that it did not reflect my personal feelings, which I chose to keep private.
My father passed away less than 24 hours before Heath. I was deeply saddened by both events. Because he was my father, I needed to spend most of the next week dealing with all of the events associated with his passing. This included taking my mother to see him at the nursing home after he passed away, going to the funeral home the next day with my mother and my siblings to make final decisions, as well as attending his funeral and accepting condolences from family and friends. I have very little experience with death or funerals, but I knew it was the right thing to do. We received comments, visits, cards, condolences, tears, smiles, and hugs from family members, old friends, new friends, and strangers as well. With so much love and concern pouring forth from so many different directions, I can't believe that keeping totally private is appropriate. No one was obliged to pay their respects to my father, they just did because it was the right thing to do.
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My father passed away less than 24 hours before Heath. I was deeply saddened by both events. Because he was my father, I needed to spend most of the next week dealing with all of the events associated with his passing. This included taking my mother to see him at the nursing home after he passed away, going to the funeral home the next day with my mother and my siblings to make final decisions, as well as attending his funeral and accepting condolences from family and friends. I have very little experience with death or funerals, but I knew it was the right thing to do. We received comments, visits, cards, condolences, tears, smiles, and hugs from family members, old friends, new friends, and strangers as well. With so much love and concern pouring forth from so many different directions, I can't believe that keeping totally private is appropriate. No one was obliged to pay their respects to my father, they just did because it was the right thing to do.
i'm very sorry for your loss. i send my condolences as well.
i also agree with you.
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It's so interesting to see the intensely personal perspectives we're all probably bringing to this question. I think each of our reactions to this particular situation with Jake just has so much to do with all of our own feelings about grief and loss (and also our own personal ideas about how best to respond to grief and loss - both in terms of personal reaction and public etiquette).
This is really such an incredibly intense thing to be going through and working through as a community.
:'(
(http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/6.gif)
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Thanks, Forsythia, for your condolences and support.
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It's so interesting to see the intensely personal perspectives we're all probably bringing to this question. I think each of our reactions to this particular situation with Jake just has so much to do with all of our own feelings about grief and loss (and also our own personal ideas about how best to respond to grief and loss - both in terms of personal reaction and public etiquette).
This is really such an incredibly intense thing to be going through and working through as a community. :'(
(http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/6.gif)
I agree with you very much on that last point Amanda, and I think everyone has been really good about striving to express their own opinions, rather than judging others whose opinions may differ...
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It's so interesting to see the intensely personal perspectives we're all probably bringing to this question. I think each of our reactions to this particular situation with Jake just has so much to do with all of our own feelings about grief and loss (and also our own personal ideas about how best to respond to grief and loss - both in terms of personal reaction and public etiquette).
This is really such an incredibly intense thing to be going through and working through as a community.
:'(
(http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/6.gif)
This sums up the situation succintly, I think the bold part is especially true here. Each side has their own reasons and logic, not any one side is more true than the other.
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My father passed away less than 24 hours before Heath. I was deeply saddened by both events. Because he was my father, I needed to spend most of the next week dealing with all of the events associated with his passing. This included taking my mother to see him at the nursing home after he passed away, going to the funeral home the next day with my mother and my siblings to make final decisions, as well as attending his funeral and accepting condolences from family and friends. I have very little experience with death or funerals, but I knew it was the right thing to do. We received comments, visits, cards, condolences, tears, smiles, and hugs from family members, old friends, new friends, and strangers as well. With so much love and concern pouring forth from so many different directions, I can't believe that keeping totally private is appropriate. No one was obliged to pay their respects to my father, they just did because it was the right thing to do.
My condolences for your loss;I've already passed for this situation,so if you need some support or stuff,count on me. :)
I agree with all you say about other people's,specially friends and relatives,behaviour in this case; nobody have obliged to say or do anything,they don't owe you anything,nobody has told them what to do in situations like this...But there's something one must have for oneself,without others persons pressure: RESPECT.
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Well I voted for; "I think it,s wierd". I think we could go on and on debating this issue forever, but until Jake actually says something, I don,t think we,ll ever know why he hasn,t said anything. I am surprised he hasn,t yes. I think his fans were certainly expecting him too, given that Michelle and Heaths parents said something, not to mention mumerous other famous people. No he doesn,t owe anyone anything and if he really doesn,t want to say anything then he doesn,t have too. I just find it a bit strange though. It could of course simply be that he,s a private person and he prefers to keep his private thoughts about this to himself, who knows. Whatever he,s doing and wherever he is, I hope he,s well and happy. He certainly looks happy in the pictures with Reese.
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I had posted the following -- in hindsight in the wrong place -- on the Heath Heath Heath thread:
Getting back to Jake's lack of a public statement, well, how difficult is it to release a statement through one's agent or press secretary? Isn't that part of the reason actors have agents and press secretaries?
You know, I wasn't expecting Jake to call a press conference or sit down for a televised interview or release a 16-paragraph eulogy. A simple statement released to the public on the order of "I am deeply saddened by the loss of Heath, and my heart aches for his family and friends. He will be missed" would have been sufficient for me and probably for lots of other people, too.
Yes, Jake is entitled to his privacy, and I'm certainly not expecting him to bear his soul to the public at large. But he should have issued some sort of statement if for no other reason than because his fans were expecting one. They wanted to hear from him. For a good while there, Jake had many of his fans worried about how he was faring after Heath's death. He owed those fans something for their concern.
I interpret his inaction as inconsideration and disrespect -- not toward Heath or his family but towards Jake's own fans. When you're a celebrity, dealing with your fans is part of the package. It's one of the prices you pay for your fame. If you want to live in total obscurity, you don't become an actor.
I can understand why people are disappointed in him.
I voted for "I am disappointed in Jake...." even though that statement is probably worded too strongly when it comes down to my actual feelings on the matter. I consider myself more of a BBM fan than a Heathen or a Gyllenhaalic, so it's really not my personal disappointment I'm addressing here but that of Jake's fans (and Heath's fans, too) who desperately wanted to hear something from him.
Look at it this way: had Jake issued some little statement, this whole matter would have been over. It wouldn't still be a topic of discussion here at BetterMost... or anywhere else for that matter. Someone -- his agent, a family member, a close friend -- should have pulled him aside and advised him to issue a short statement, even if he didn't want to, because it was the sensible thing to do. In fact, I'm kind of surprised that he didn't see the logic in issuing some sort of statement from the very beginning: Jake issues a statement, the press and fans have what they want, and everyone moves on to other news. As things stand now, you can bet that anyone interviewing him with regard to an upcoming film is going to ask him about Heath and his reaction to news of his death. He's going to have to say something at some point, so it seems to me that all he did was prolong the process, create more intrigue, and upset some members of his fanbase. His not issuing a statement really makes no sense to me.
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I had posted the following -- in hindsight in the wrong place -- on the Heath Heath Heath thread:
I voted for "I am disappointed in Jake...." even though that statement is probably worded too strongly when it comes down to my actual feelings on the matter. I consider myself more of a BBM fan than a Heathen or a Gyllenhaalic, so it's really not my personal disappointment I'm addressing here but that of Jake's fans (and Heath's fans, too) who desperately wanted to hear something from him.
Look at it this way: had Jake issued some little statement, this whole matter would have been over. It wouldn't still be a topic of discussion here at BetterMost... or anywhere else for that matter. Someone -- his agent, a family member, a close friend -- should have pulled him aside and advised him to issue a short statement, even if he didn't want to, because it was the sensible thing to do. In fact, I'm kind of surprised that he didn't see the logic in issuing some sort of statement from the very beginning: Jake issues a statement, the press and fans have what they want, and everyone moves on to other news. As things stand now, you can bet that anyone interviewing him with regard to an upcoming film is going to ask him about Heath and his reaction to news of his death. He's going to have to say something at some point, so it seems to me that all he did was prolong the process, create more intrigue, and upset some members of his fanbase. His not issuing a statement really makes no sense to me.
Hi Fran,
I agree with what you just wrote. I'm also coming to this whole situation as a BBM fan... and not a person who really identifies as either a Heathen or a Gyllenhaalic. I always have thought that the balance between the two was an important element to Brokie fandom.
Anyway, like you mentioned, I'm perplexed by the situation from a "PR" standpoint too. You're right that this is just becoming prolonged. And as I mentioned on another thread... we're just all going to go around and around in circles speculating and debating (with very little to go on) until Jake begins to make real public appearances again. I'm sure you're right that interviewers will be asking him about Heath when he begins to do promotions for upcoming projects, etc. I'm sure we'll learn more about what's going on eventually. But for now, this really does seem to be a topic stuck in limbo.
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The problem is that,as you say atz75,we're going to go round and round in circles,repeating the same words and concepts over and over again...I've spoken more than a time about respect,and for me it's the most important of all this.Respect for Heath's memory,respect for his family,respect for his closest friends...And a rather meaningful point that Fran has said and which I haven't tought about before-even if I consider myself a Gyllenhalic,or maybe because of this...-:respect for all the fans who could feel worried about his emotional situation.
Fans whom he doesn't owe anything,it's true,beyond his public image;but whom he owe,that's for sure,enough fame as we're speaking about this situation now...All who admired his work and,even,his look have contributed to his fame and his reputation in movie's world,whatever he thinks or not...It's not necessary for him or for anybody else to make a press conference to say how he feels,I have repeated this until being bored;his words could be taken in a wrong sense for some dirty-minded persons and,maybe,his agent has recommended him to be silent.That's right for me.
But you're only speaking about this possibility of SPEAK; but for me the most important is TO DO.And we haven't read or heard anything that shows he has shared some public or private act in Heath's memory.That's the weirdest thing for me.Do you know what has happenned here with all this stuff?That all of us,Brokies,Heathens and Gyllenhalics,moved by a love to the movie and,as a consequence,to all the persons who contributed to its filming,have confused the story with the reality.As if Heath and Jake must be a kind of little Ennis and Jack in real life,if not lovers,the best friends of the world.And maybe they were only coworkers in a successful movie and nothing else than a certain friendship that lasted what the promotional work lasted.That's what I'm coming to believe,according to what I'm seeing.
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Well I am puzzled,by his reaction.Not annoyed,not even upset,just puzzled.If nothing else after any death of someone you are associated with,etiquette usually prevails.
I remain unconvinced he has done something in private,merely because in this day of invasive press and nothing is sacrosanct,I am sure it would have emerged by now.
With respect to the man,I have never lost anyone close,as yet.So I have no idea how I would react.Could it be his grief/shock was too great, initially,and then as it lessened.it was just too late.Who knows.Or did he just misjudge public reaction,then leave it too late.
I will not judge,because years ago when Princess Diana died,I was perplexed to say the least,at the public reaction.I just did not get it, and was somewhat scathing.Then hey presto,I am suddenly pole axed by the death of Heath.So we just never know.
Lets be honest,the Queen completely misjudged her initial reaction to the death of Diana,and was lambasted in the press over it.She is surrounded by advisers,and yet got it wrong.By the time she issued a statement,it really was too late.It looked like the after thought it was.If after decades of duty and royal deaths,surrounded by advisers,with a wealth of experience,she can still get it so wrong,then I guess Jake certainly can.
I hope it does not come back to bite him.Particularly,if he took advise on how to react or not as the case might be.Heath is gone and we cannot change that.It would be too bad if Jake then suffers a career slump as well.Maybe like the Queen he was just given bad advice.We all get it wrong sometimes,particularly if it s our first time dealing with a particular situation personally.Sometimes we even get it wrong with the very best of intentions.
I just hope,that one day Matilda will get comfort from the knowledge of how deeply her father touched so many.In much the same way I am sure Diana's children gained comfort,from those whose lives their mother touched.
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I voted "disappointed". I already expressed my feelings in HHH, but i'll repost it here:
When asked after the BAFTA ceremony if Ang Lee was the Godfather of Matilda, because Ang called himslef "matchmaker", Heath and Michelle said that it's Jake actually. Later during a press conference Jake confirmed he was the Godfather. Ever since press mentioned the fact every now and then.
It seemed that Jake and Heath were very close during BBM promotion, but we really can not know for sure how close they remained (you don't have to be close to your kid's Godparents btw). The one lived in L.A. the other in N.Y. I believe they saw each other every now and then, but that's about it. Each had their own life.
I'm sure Jake, when he heard about Heath's death was very sad, but i doubt he was as devastated as some claimed. He even went to a Rufus Wainwright concert days after Heath's death, or shopping in Soho with Reese over a month ago etc. Life has to go on and his main priority at the moment seems to be his girlfriend. I also didn't expect him to react like Jack Twist would have reacted if Ennis Del Mar had died before him. I can distinguish reality from fiction and while i understand that life goes on and he has other priorities in his real life, a statement/tribute would have been a sign of respect towards Heath, I personally appreciated all the tributes from Heath's family members, friends and colleagues. Jake for whatever reason, may it be personal or professional, decided not to do it and i don't think we will get anything from him. If we want it or not, we must accept it and move on.
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And maybe they were only coworkers in a successful movie and nothing else than a certain friendship that lasted what the promotional work lasted.That's what I'm coming to believe,according to what I'm seeing.
That's what I came to believe too, even before Heath died.
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well, i think there's a lot of mixed thoughts and emotions about this issue, and i think everyone has the right to feel whatever they feel. personally, i wish jake would say something, just for the sake of the wondering public, if not for anything else. when john ritter died, joyce dewitt and suzanne summers spoke to the press, and that show ended a million years ago, and i doubt they were very close after that...at least as far as i know....and when micheal landon died, his little house on the prairie co-workers spoke out, and melissa gilbert even said she hadn't seen or spoken to him in years, yet she had very touching things to say. his co-star wife and the others even put out a dvd of tributes to the late mr. landon, and i doubt karen grassle and him were that close after the show ended. in fact, she pretty much dropped out of acting all together....so, i think it's just a respectfull thing to do, close or not close, they were still co-workers. there are several more examples of fellow actors who pay tribute to eachother after a passing, so, i don't know why jake is holding back.
however, with that being said, i still love jake. i'm still a fan. i still respect him. and , it's ultimately up to him to do what he sees fit. also, i want to say that i respect everyone's opinion on this thread, even those i disagree with.
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I was just thinking... concerning the frustration and confusion expressed here by a lot of folks about this state of "not knowing" or the lack of real information regarding Jake on this subject (leading to speculation and continual questioning... not only about his reaction to Heath's death, but about the status of their friendship, etc.)...
This really is a situation where "there's space between what we know and what we try to believe."
It's the lack of closure that (to me at least) is frustrating and keeps me cycling back to this topic.
:(
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As far as being "disappointed in Jake" is concerned, I don't feel I know enough to have expectations to be disappointed about. Never met him, even seen him in person.
I do know what sort of reputation he has just from reading and seeing what I'd assume everyone else in the fandom has seen and read; and from that I feel satisfied that whatever the reason, it's something personal that might not even concern everyone he personally knows, let alone fans.
I also think too many people are confusing Heath and Jake with Ennis and Jack.
edited to add: did not vote in the poll, for the reason that none of the options came close to representing my opinion. If there was an "other" category, guess that's what it would be.
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I wish we'd been allowed to vote for more than one. Because in this case, I could have checked just about every answer!
I don't feel he owes anyone a statement.
I can understand why he hasn't issued one.
I do think it's a little weird that he hasn't, though -- it wouldn't have to be a big deal.
I'm slightly disappointed, because I'd be interested in seeing what he said.
I like Jake fine, but am not such a huge fan that I have strong feelings about his actions in this matter.
When it comes right down to it, I really don't care about it one way or another, so that's how I voted. I can probably guess approximately what Jake would say if he did say something. And I might not necessarily believe it reflected his deepest most heartfelt feelings. So it really doesn't make any difference to me whether he says something or not.
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Hi Fran,
I agree with what you just wrote. I'm also coming to this whole situation as a BBM fan... and not a person who really identifies as either a Heathen or a Gyllenhaalic. I always have thought that the balance between the two was an important element to Brokie fandom.
Anyway, like you mentioned, I'm perplexed by the situation from a "PR" standpoint too. You're right that this is just becoming prolonged. And as I mentioned on another thread... we're just all going to go around and around in circles speculating and debating (with very little to go on) until Jake begins to make real public appearances again. I'm sure you're right that interviewers will be asking him about Heath when he begins to do promotions for upcoming projects, etc. I'm sure we'll learn more about what's going on eventually. But for now, this really does seem to be a topic stuck in limbo.
Well I voted "I really don't feel that he owes us anything and I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing". Having suffered bereavements myself in the past, I can perfectly understand the feeling of not. We all deal with bereavement and grief in our own ways. That said, as Amanda and others have said, I do feel it would have been nice if he'd said something, and as it is people are always going to be wondering, and it's something interviewers are going to be asking. Who knows, maybe one day he may say something, but though I guess I am curious, I can't say it's something I'm going to be losing any sleep over.
The whole thing of whether you're a BBM fan or a Heathen or a Gyllenhaalic's an interesting point. I guess I'd identify as neither a Heathen or a Gyllenhaalic - Brokie, yes, BBM fan, yes, fan of both Heath and Jake, yes, but I can't say that either comes above another.
Do you know what has happenned here with all this stuff?That all of us,Brokies,Heathens and Gyllenhalics,moved by a love to the movie and,as a consequence,to all the persons who contributed to its filming,have confused the story with the reality.As if Heath and Jake must be a kind of little Ennis and Jack in real life,if not lovers,the best friends of the world.And maybe they were only coworkers in a successful movie and nothing else than a certain friendship that lasted what the promotional work lasted.That's what I'm coming to believe,according to what I'm seeing.
Another very interesting point. We all talk of Ennis and Jack being real, and to me they're very real, but, neither of them is Heath or Jake. I guess it's easy in some ways to blur the distinction between the story and reality, and I guess that given how much the story and the film moved us it's only natural in some ways that that happens, almost as though the feel of the film carried over into real life. In part I suppose it's a testament to Heath and Jake's acting that for 134 minutes they were Ennis and Jack, and they made us believe they were Ennis and Jack.
I guess ultimately as to whether they were only coworkers or best friends, only they will ever know, and it's obvious Jake doesn't want to talk about it (and is it just me, or do others feel slightly guilty somehow, though I'm sure sure guilty's really the right word, but uneasy at least, about discussing this?), but I guess we'll always wonder. That's only natural, but I feel in the end we paid our entrance fee to the cinema to be entertained for the length of the film (no-one told us about the lifetime obsession that came free with it), and that entrance fee didn't include an automatic right to know the thoughts and feelings of everyone who starred in the film. It's human nature to be curious though I guess.
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This really is a situation where "there's space between what we know and what we try to believe."
So true Amanda. Yet again the words of the story sum up real life.
I guess another part of it all is the parallels between Jack dying in the film and Heath dying in real life. That makes it very easy for people to make assumptions based on the story and carrying them into real life.
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I see your point about the other co-stars. But, I still contend that BBM is different. It stands as the most significant film Heath made and is also Jake's most significant film to date. It's the film that each of them won Oscar nominations for (as well as all the other awards). In terms of Heath's legacy, it really will be BBM that stands out (to me this just seems very clear). Before Brokeback, I had no idea who Heath Ledger was. Brokeback really played such a significant role in Heath's prominence. Even in terms of visual recall... in terms of Heath's memory... the image of Heath paired with Jake (a la the BBM poster) is probably one of the first things most people think of and will think of as time goes on. Jake's role in this and the perpetuation of Heath's memory (as far as serious film goes) I think is at a different level than the other co-stars.
Also, I think we're more worried about Jake than the other co-stars simply because we're Brokies. Maybe the fans of those other people are wondering about them, but it's of less concern to me personally than the reactions of BBM people (including Ang Lee's comments, Anne Hathaway's tribute and statements put out by Michelle).
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I voted "I really don't feel that he owes us anything and I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing".
It's interesting that no one has ever questioned why his co star in Casanova, Sienna Miller, hasn't issued a statement, or perhaps Julia Stiles from Ten Things I Hate About You. I wish people would leave Jake alone.
Susie
I think it's because they starred in BBM together and you all know BBM was huge also Jake is Matilda's Godfather and that's why people expected something. I don't even think the press contacted Sienna Miller or Julia Stiles, but i'm pretty sure they contacted Jake.
I wanted to add that those tributes to Heath are pretty nice gestures and are a great counterpart to the stories (which are probably mostly made up) written about him in rags.
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Also, I think we're more worried about Jake than the other co-stars simply because we're Brokies. Maybe the fans of those other people are wondering about them, but it's of less concern to me personally than the reactions of BBM people (including Ang Lee's comments, Anne Hathaway's tribute and statements put out by Michelle).
And let's not forget Diana Ossana's lovely tribute to Heath in The Advocate (March 11, 2008):
HEATH WAS AN OLD SOUL in a young man's frame, extremely masculine, extremely competent in all things, and yet sensitive beyond belief. In person Heath was animated and kinetic and full of life, far different from the character he portrayed in Brokeback Mountain. He was always disheveled, unconcerned with his appearance, because -- like my writing partner, Larry McMurtry -- Heath lived in his head. Heath was a pure actor, much like Larry's a pure writer, and I was moved by the similarities between these two seemingly very different men.
One of my most endearing memories of working with Heath on set was the day we filmed the final scene in Brokeback. Before the first take, Heath walked over to me, a big smile on his face, and said, "I think you're going to like what I've done with thhis scene." Then he headed inside that bleak little trailer house, and the cameras rolled. I watched the monitor as Ennis opened his tiny closet door and revealed the two shirts he had found hidden inside Jack's childhood bedroom, like skins, one inside the other... and realized that Heath, as Ennis, had chosen to reverse the order of those shirts, with his on the outside, embracing Jack's. Such was Heath's commitment to the truth of our story and to the rawness and depth of his portrayal. Afterward our grizzzled and thoroughly macho first assistant director marched over to me, bent down, and whispered in my ear, "Diana, I've worked in this business 50 years. This is the first time an actor's brought a tear to my eye."
Heath was generous and dear, painfully shy and gifted, and I will miss him for the rest of my days.
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It's obvious that this is a very difficult subject. I rarely express a strong opinion about anything on any forum. This could be the exception. I can accept and respect the fact that we have different opinions on this subject, and I don't like to argue, but I think that much of the anxiety I'm experiencing here has to do with the wording of the voting choices. I, like some others, find it difficult to restrict my opinion to one of the statements which have been provided. At this point, 40.6% have voted for the statement "I really don't feel that he owes us anything and I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing". I agree almost without exception that "I really don't feel that he owes us anything", however, I don't understand how anyone can agree with the second part. To anyone who can honestly state "I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing", please explain it to me and the rest of the world. You must be in intimate touch with the depths of Jake Gyllenhaal's mind. Perhaps I'm nit-picking with semantics, but the results of the poll thus far seems to me like "lying with statistics". Yes, I'll admit I'm "disappointed", but there's no way I could ever say that I "understand".
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To anyone who can honestly state "I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing", please explain it to me and the rest of the world. You must be in intimate touch with the depths of Jake Gyllenhaal's mind. Perhaps I'm nit-picking with semantics, but the results of the poll thus far seems to me like "lying with statistics". Yes, I'll admit I'm "disappointed", but there's no way I could ever say that I "understand".
Well for me, and I was one who voted for that choice, the only thing I can relate it to is last year when my grandma died. From the time when she was diagnosed with advanced cancer (coincidentally today I've just realised), and we were told she had only months at best, and then when she came out of hospital after an emergency operation, she moved in with us, and she was with us until the day she died in July last year. I watched her suffer every day, and helped as best as I could with her care. For four months she was with me constantly, whether physically, or when I was at work, emotionally. When she died, there was just emptiness, a big space where she used to be, and a big hole in my life. Though I had to go to the funeral, I wore dark glasses and I wouldn't speak to the rest of the extended family about her. I didn't want to have to talk about her, explain my feelings about her death or anything. I didn't want anyone's condolences, and well-meaning though they were I didn't want anyone's sympathy. I didn't want to have to explain myself and feelings to anyone. I dealt with it in my own way, and at that time I didn't want any fuss - I didn't even tell the people I work with she'd died until a couple of months later. As far as they knew I was just on a leave of absence at the time.
Different circumstances entirely, I know, but bereavement and grief affect everyone differently (and I certainly reacted completely differently last year to how I have in the past when friends and relatives have died). I can't claim to know anything about Jake's thoughts or state of mind, but I know how I felt last year. Maybe he has said things in private, and maybe he's said things to Michelle and to Heath's family, and ultimately it's his choice whether to say anything in public, that's his right.
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Well for me, and I was one who voted for that choice, the only thing I can relate it to is last year when my grandma died. From the time when she was diagnosed with advanced cancer (coincidentally today I've just realised), and we were told she had only months at best, and then when she came out of hospital after an emergency operation, she moved in with us, and she was with us until the day she died in July last year. I watched her suffer every day, and helped as best as I could with her care. For four months she was with me constantly, whether physically, or when I was at work, emotionally. When she died, there was just emptiness, a big space where she used to be, and a big hole in my life. Though I had to go to the funeral, I wore dark glasses and I wouldn't speak to the rest of the extended family about her. I didn't want to have to talk about her, explain my feelings about her death or anything. I didn't want anyone's condolences, and well-meaning though they were I didn't want anyone's sympathy. I didn't want to have to explain myself and feelings to anyone. I dealt with it in my own way, and at that time I didn't want any fuss - I didn't even tell the people I work with she'd died until a couple of months later. As far as they knew I was just on a leave of absence at the time.
Different circumstances entirely, I know, but bereavement and grief affect everyone differently (and I certainly reacted completely differently last year to how I have in the past when friends and relatives have died). I can't claim to know anything about Jake's thoughts or state of mind, but I know how I felt last year. Maybe he has said things in private, and maybe he's said things to Michelle and to Heath's family, and ultimately it's his choice whether to say anything in public, that's his right.
firstly, let me say i am very sorry for your loss. my condolences go out to you, as well as another member on this thread who suffered a loss recently.
i liked what you had to say. made sense.
i also agree with nova20194, about not understanding. i guess really, everyone has a different take on the subject.
no one is right, no one is wrong. a very political answer i know, but obviously everyone has personal opinions. i too tend to shy away from subjects like these that may create an angry reply. i stated my feelings rather directly in an earlier post, and so far , no one has torn that apart, which i'm thankfull for. so far, this thread has remained friendly, and i'm thankfull for that, and that it is safe to say whatever, without backlash....
i do wish jake would say something....but i certainly have respect for those who see it differently..
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BlissC:
Your feelings about your grandmother and your reaction is very similar to my own when I have lost friends and family members - I have lost several, and the first major loss in my life was my sister at the age of 35. Nobody really understands the choice to keep quiet, to mourn privately, and it seems to produce a lot of anger in those who have a need to grieve openly - they also seem to not be able to accept those who grieve privately. Some of my strong feelings about this issue come from being the kind who must grieve privately, and I have absolutely no doubt that Jake is grieving. But those who have either incurred no big personal losses themselves, or who are the kind who grieve more openly, will never really understand, and they do tend to lash out. I suffered a lot by my family not wanting me to grieve my own way, and I really don't want Jake to suffer that same thing on top of his grief.
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good point. yes, i understand how you feel.
although i already posted how i feel, i will say that i can see how the press would twist (no punn intended) what jake says, no matter what. for example, if he had released a statement saying "i am deeply saddened by the loss of my dear friend and fello actor heath ledger", and then later was spotted shopping with reese, the tabloids would have a hey-day with that. they did it to mary-kate olsen, (who i really don't care about) , but it was reported that she made a very similar statement as i mentioned, and was blasted by a few different magazines for being at a bar 3 nights later.......so, with that being said, he may well be a lot safer to say nothing, and then no one can lash out at his choice in endeavors, because there would be nothing to contradict them.
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It's obvious that this is a very difficult subject. I rarely express a strong opinion about anything on any forum. This could be the exception. I can accept and respect the fact that we have different opinions on this subject, and I don't like to argue, but I think that much of the anxiety I'm experiencing here has to do with the wording of the voting choices. I, like some others, find it difficult to restrict my opinion to one of the statements which have been provided. At this point, 40.6% have voted for the statement "I really don't feel that he owes us anything and I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing". I agree almost without exception that "I really don't feel that he owes us anything", however, I don't understand how anyone can agree with the second part. To anyone who can honestly state "I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing", please explain it to me and the rest of the world. You must be in intimate touch with the depths of Jake Gyllenhaal's mind. Perhaps I'm nit-picking with semantics, but the results of the poll thus far seems to me like "lying with statistics". Yes, I'll admit I'm "disappointed", but there's no way I could ever say that I "understand".
My bad, maybe you want to take a shot at better categories? This is the best I could do. :D
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My bad, maybe you want to take a shot at better categories? This is the best I could do. :D
Not necessary. I probably just over-reacted to my interpretation of some of the words, especially since I'm among those who are disappointed in Jake's silence. I'm sure that no one is trying to imply that they understand what's going on in Jake's mind. I suspect it's more that they support his decision to remain silent.
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I suffered a lot by my family not wanting me to grieve my own way, and I really don't want Jake to suffer that same thing on top of his grief.
I guess that's the heart of it. Both as fans, and as fellow human beings, we feel concern for Jake.
I think another important thing to remember, regardless of how everyone grieves as individuals, is that grief's not a fixed in stone limited time thing, but a continual process - shock/numbness, sadness, anger, apathy/depression, and finally acceptance, and everyone has to work their way through that process. They don't always come in the same order, they may be fleeting, and sometimes psychologically you miss a step, and it can come back months or years later. When his sister died, my dad reacted very strangely, but then seemed to recover and accept it, but he hadn't got angry. Three years after she died it came back and hit him, and he nearly drove my mum to divorce with his reactions to things, but he ended up having counselling, and he worked through it. Again, everyone's different in how they work through the process.
Who knows? Maybe Jake just wasn't ready to say anything publicly, and maybe he will in time.
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no-one told us about the lifetime obsession that came free with it
;D ;D ;D
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And let's not forget Diana Ossana's lovely tribute to Heath in The Advocate (March 11, 2008):
HEATH WAS AN OLD SOUL in a young man's frame, extremely masculine, extremely competent in all things, and yet sensitive beyond belief. In person Heath was animated and kinetic and full of life, far different from the character he portrayed in Brokeback Mountain. He was always disheveled, unconcerned with his appearance, because -- like my writing partner, Larry McMurtry -- Heath lived in his head. Heath was a pure actor, much like Larry's a pure writer, and I was moved by the similarities between these two seemingly very different men.
One of my most endearing memories of working with Heath on set was the day we filmed the final scene in Brokeback. Before the first take, Heath walked over to me, a big smile on his face, and said, "I think you're going to like what I've done with thhis scene." Then he headed inside that bleak little trailer house, and the cameras rolled. I watched the monitor as Ennis opened his tiny closet door and revealed the two shirts he had found hidden inside Jack's childhood bedroom, like skins, one inside the other... and realized that Heath, as Ennis, had chosen to reverse the order of those shirts, with his on the outside, embracing Jack's. Such was Heath's commitment to the truth of our story and to the rawness and depth of his portrayal. Afterward our grizzzled and thoroughly macho first assistant director marched over to me, bent down, and whispered in my ear, "Diana, I've worked in this business 50 years. This is the first time an actor's brought a tear to my eye."
Heath was generous and dear, painfully shy and gifted, and I will miss him for the rest of my days.
and reading that brings tears to my eyes, in a sad way, but also in a good way.
(daggone he was special and I'm so glad I know it)
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I am one of those that voted for: I really don't feel that he owes us anything and I understand why he hasn't said or written anything about Heath's passing.
I have mostly tried to stay out of the discussion, but since nova asked for some clarification... For me, when it comes to death and grieving, I feel that often, there is no understanding. No understanding the how or the why, the emotions, the circumstances, therefore, while I don't know how or why or what is going through Jake's mind, I say that I understand it, because to me, all things come with grief: the good, bad, the ugly, and outbursts as well as silence. Someone going through the most normal behaviors on the outside could be experiencing the most intense grief on the inside. So regardless of whether it's screaming or withdrawing, or 'acting like everything is normal,' I say that I understand.
Hope that makes some sense and helps to clarify. In a way, it is the lack of understanding that makes it understandable.
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I am saying that I dont think Jake is required to give anyone any testamony about his
feelings, as regards his best friend.. He is allowed to keep his feelings to himself for as long as
he needs to do so..I am sure somewhere down the line, he will make a statement. But in his
own time, and in his own way. I feel that the people that think he "should" make some kind
of a remark, should be examining their own motives as to why they think that it is required for
him to do so. I personally dont think he owes me anythig. I am a fan, but as so many people are
want to do..Decry the media and the papparazi for chasing the famous people..They themselves
are doing the same thing in this way...Its the same thing in a different form. You cant have
it both ways.. You either dont think they owe you anything at all, about their private life, or the
do...Its not fair for him to be expected to give you some things and not others, According to\
your own choosing... If this issue is not something that can be kept private.. Nothing is. I know
from when my family died all within 18 mos of each other. I didnt ever want to talk about it.
The reason was simple..Anytime i did i would embaress myself by starting to cry...I would feel
humiliated and stupid and the object of pity and sausing others discomfort.. Therefor I just didnt talk about it at all...Wherether or not this is his motivation, i dont know. But for the time being i certainly think he deserves to be left alone and not disrespected for not giving us all warm fuzzies
by explaining his personal feeling for all the world to judge and decide his sincerity. I do know that
at this time anything he may say, would never suffice.
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ifyoucantfixit, I certainly and definitely respect your opinion as I have said all along I can see both sides' arguments. But I seem to remember back when Heath was alive there was a discussion about how Heath hated being chased and goaded by the paparazzi. You have said to the effect that he's in this business, he should tolerate this kind of treatment, and if he couldn't, then he should consider leaving. So it was Heath's fault. But now, you are equating those who wanted to hear just a simple statement through Jake's PR as paparazzi, which I can't disagree more, and now the fault is on them. Double standard much?
This kind of back and forth argument is getting really tedious and going nowhere. May I suggest the mods to consider closing this thread?
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ifyoucantfixit, I certainly and definitely respect your opinion as I have said all along I can see both sides' arguments. But I seem to remember back when Heath was alive there was a discussion about how Heath hated being chased and goaded by the paparazzi. You have said to the effect that he's in this business, he should tolerate this kind of treatment, and if he couldn't, then he should consider leaving. So it was Heath's fault. But now, you are equating those who wanted to hear just a simple statement through Jake's PR as paparazzi, which I can't disagree more, and now the fault is on them. Double standard much?
This kind of back and forth argument is getting really tedious and going nowhere. May I suggest the mods to consider closing this thread?
I don't see a reason for closing this thread at this time, until now people have just stated their opinion without becoming personal. The discussion will die down eventually and we will move on.
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I don't see a reason for closing this thread at this time, until now people have just stated their opinion without becoming personal. The discussion will die down eventually and we will move on.
I agree. This is obviously an issue that some people feel very strongly about. But we all have a right to our own opinion; that's what a poll is all about. So let's disagree respectfully. If you feel like you'll be upset by someone's opposing viewpoint, then please simply try to avoid this thread.
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I think its a bit weird that he hasn't said anthing, but on the other hand, I dont really know what I would be expecting him to say.
Its all been said............
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I think its a bit weird that he hasn't said anthing, but on the other hand, I dont really know what I would be expecting him to say.
Its all been said............
But don't we all still enjoy reading/hearing all the great quotes/tributes from family, friends and co-stars about him? Through them i learned a lot more about Heath and respect him even more. He was so private, kept all his talents to himself, those people are now sharing it with the world. They want us to know what a multi talent he was. They are a great counterpart to the tabloid stories about him. I really appreciate that! :) What if everyone who knew him remained silent? We wouldn't have any of that!
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But don't we all still enjoy reading/hearing all the great quotes/tributes from family, friends and co-stars about him? Through them i learned a lot more about Heath and respect him even more. He was so private, kept all his talents to himself, those people are now sharing it with the world. They want us to know what a multi talent he was. They are a great counterpart to the tabloid stories about him. I really appreciate that! :) What if everyone who knew him remained silent? We wouldn't have any of that!
Exactly! :-*
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But don't we all still enjoy reading/hearing all the great quotes/tributes from family, friends and co-stars about him? Through them i learned a lot more about Heath and respect him even more. He was so private, kept all his talents to himself, those people are now sharing it with the world. They want us to know what a multi talent he was. They are a great counterpart to the tabloid stories about him. I really appreciate that! :) What if everyone who knew him remained silent? We wouldn't have any of that!
Absolutely. :)
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I don't see a reason for closing this thread at this time, until now people have just stated their opinion without becoming personal. The discussion will die down eventually and we will move on.
I agree. This is obviously an issue that some people feel very strongly about. But we all have a right to our own opinion; that's what a poll is all about. So let's disagree respectfully. If you feel like you'll be upset by someone's opposing viewpoint, then please simply try to avoid this thread.
I think having this thread open is important, because it provides a place to work through this issue on its own. Otherwise, this question would continue to permeate all sorts of other threads (like HHH and JJJ where this discussion has been very intense and interesting... but which has also steered those threads in unexpected directions at times). So, it seems reasonable to have a space dedicated to this topic.
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Thanks for agreeing with me Snavel and belbbmfan! :-*
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Jake has his own life to lead in his own way. We were given a great and wonderful gift in his performance as Jack Twist. I wish Jake Gyllenhaal all of the very best in what I hope is a very long life, and I hope to see many more film roles of him long into the future.
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I feel that the people that think he "should" make some kind
of a remark, should be examining their own motives as to why they think that it is required for
him to do so. I personally dont think he owes me anything. I am a fan, but as so many people are
want to do..Decry the media and the papparazi for chasing the famous people..They themselves
are doing the same thing in this way...Its the same thing in a different form. You cant have
it both ways.. You either dont think they owe you anything at all, about their private life, or the
do...Its not fair for him to be expected to give you some things and not others, According to\
your own choosing... If this issue is not something that can be kept private.. Nothing is.
No disrespect meant to anyone here, but I guess this is what's been niggling away at the back of my mind about this whole discussion - to me anyhow it feels kind of "disrespectful" somehow to be questioning Jake's motives for not speaking out. The media and the paparazzi's "defence" for their chasing of famous people would be that they do so because there's a public interest, and there undoubtedly is because otherwise discussions such as this wouldn't be going on. If we switched on the TV tomorrow though, or opened the newspaper and saw that Jake had made a statement I suppose the response from fans would be split between "Thank god he's finally said something like he should have before" and "That's good, he seems okay".
Maybe the fact that we're having this discussion though says more about our response to Heath's death though rather than Jake's. I don't know about anyone else, but I've never been in this situation before. We saw a film that had a great actor in it, and maybe we saw his other work as well, and that film and his performance in it affected us deeply. We were in awe of his great talent, and the more we saw him on TV and read about him as a person as well as a great actor, we took him into our hearts, and that and the impact he's had on our lives through BBM made us feel a huge sense of loss at the news of his death. This is a strange situation though, because he's not someone we knew personally or ever met, but because of the impact he's had on our lives, we still feel a sense of grief. It's something though that we can't talk about to non-Brokie's because they'd think were crazy, so discussions like this are our way of trying to make sense of it all and come to some sort of acceptance. Maybe then, wanting Jake to say something reflects more about our need for closure. Does that make any sense?
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No disrespect meant to anyone here, but I guess this is what's been niggling away at the back of my mind about this whole discussion - to me anyhow it feels kind of "disrespectful" somehow to be questioning Jake's motives for not speaking out. The media and the paparazzi's "defence" for their chasing of famous people would be that they do so because there's a public interest, and there undoubtedly is because otherwise discussions such as this wouldn't be going on. If we switched on the TV tomorrow though, or opened the newspaper and saw that Jake had made a statement I suppose the response from fans would be split between "Thank god he's finally said something like he should have before" and "That's good, he seems okay".
Maybe the fact that we're having this discussion though says more about our response to Heath's death though rather than Jake's. I don't know about anyone else, but I've never been in this situation before. We saw a film that had a great actor in it, and maybe we saw his other work as well, and that film and his performance in it affected us deeply. We were in awe of his great talent, and the more we saw him on TV and read about him as a person as well as a great actor, we took him into our hearts, and that and the impact he's had on our lives through BBM made us feel a huge sense of loss at the news of his death. This is a strange situation though, because he's not someone we knew personally or ever met, but because of the impact he's had on our lives, we still feel a sense of grief. It's something though that we can't talk about to non-Brokie's because they'd think were crazy, so discussions like this are our way of trying to make sense of it all and come to some sort of acceptance. Maybe then, wanting Jake to say something reflects more about our need for closure. Does that make any sense?
Makes perfect sense to me.I just want to feel I think ,that Heath was as important to him as he was to us.In fact more so.But the problem is,that fiction is merging with reality in my head.I comprehend it is unreasonable,but cannot seem to shake it.I would just like to read something,heartfelt from Jake,almost so that I can justify what is happening in my own head.
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I don't feel it's odd or inappropriate to question what's going on here. And, it's certainly not out of lack of respect or affection for Jake. If I didn't care about him I wouldn't care whether about how he reacted to Heath's passing.
Essentially, Jake is a public figure with publicists and an active interest in engaging with the public and probably particularly his fans. This is a case where his fans are interested in what's going on and are showing concern for him. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with that.
I'll just reiterate what I've said multiple times now (in multiple threads)... Jake was Heath's most significant co-star in Heath's most significant movie. We've heard from almost all of the key individuals associated with Brokeback at this stage, with the most recent being Anne Hathaway. Jake's silence just seems glaring with these factors taken into consideration. Added to this Jake is the godfather to Heath's child, essentially making him a symbolic family member. On an etiquette level, at the very least, a brief eulogy-type statement does not at all seem unreasonable.
But, it is true on a personal level, I'm really hoping to hear from Jake in terms of coming to closure on this for myself. That's just how it is for me. I'll feel particularly unsettled about this until he's heard from or until I have a better sense of what's going on. And also, as a Brokie, it just seems logical that this would be a concern and a particular interest.
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I don't feel concerned over Jake's silence at all. We all deal with our grief in different ways. Jack Gyllenhaal is a man with a solid moral center, he will reveal his grief and true feelings in his own time.
I know that it is a blessing for Jake that he has been made aware of the support and affection of millions for him and his career.
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I kept expecting that he'd say something and more time went by and I thought, "Hhmm, it's kind of odd that he hasn't said anything yet." I'm not disappointed that he hasn't said anything. I was just expecting for him to say something like a couple of weeks after Heath's death and when he didn't it struck me as kind of odd, for a fleeting moment. People do deal with death and grieve in their own way and I don't think he owes us anything. Now I just don't really think anything about it except that I hope Jake has made his peace with Heath's death.
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I have an uneasy feeling that the blizzard of accusations directed towards Jake about his sexual orientation have played a cautionary role... at least with his publicists.
But sooner or later questions about Heath and BBM are going to be brought up in an interview. BBM garnered awards and acclamation that cannot be ignored. And, in fact, established Jake as a SUPERSTAR.
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God knows why I have to open my mouth and I'm never here except when I lurk and enjoy myself reading.
I still can't breath when I think about Heath's leaving us. I have a huge lump in my throat now while I'm trying to write this.
I'm not a doctor but I am a licensed health care professional and I show you Jake's grief... his pretty serious ankle injury and his accompanying Game Ready.
Family and close friends of a deceased person often show sighs of grief via accidents and injuries. I'm not surprised that Jake has a serious injury and this may not be all that he s suffering.
When my mother died I followed her wishes to her neighbors great chagrin. She made me promise when she was lucid not to allow anyone in her apt if it wasn't up to her strict standards...I didn't. When I called her friends and they told me they would be right over I said NO.
Some of them still don't speak to me and I could care less. I had a memorial for her and tried to do things as she wished.
I respect Jake's right to grieve as he wishes though I do worry that he needs to let it out...perhaps he will one day. I also know that Heath and Jake were the closest of friends...Jake is Matilda's Godfather and it has been reported elsewhere in Jakeverse that he is fulfilling his promises. Jake is a verbal open emotional person who is also deeply private and may even be paying homage to Heath by his very silence.
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Rnmina, thanks for that interesting post. I never thought about the ankle injury being related to his feelings over Heath's death but it does not sound at all far fetched to me. I didn't understand what "Game Ready" meant though.
I can understand carrying out your mother's wishes. What I don't understand is people not speaking to you anymore because of it.
I agree about Jake being private about it. Even the most outspoken people can become very private when it comes to dealing with death.
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What's Game Ready?
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What's Game Ready?
It's an ice/heat pack system for sports injuries:
http://www.gameready.com/ (http://www.gameready.com/)
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God knows why I have to open my mouth and I'm never here except when I lurk and enjoy myself reading.
I still can't breath when I think about Heath's leaving us. I have a huge lump in my throat now while I'm trying to write this.
I'm not a doctor but I am a licensed health care professional and I show you Jake's grief... his pretty serious ankle injury and his accompanying Game Ready.
Family and close friends of a deceased person often show sighs of grief via accidents and injuries. I'm not surprised that Jake has a serious injury and this may not be all that he s suffering.
When my mother died I followed her wishes to her neighbors great chagrin. She made me promise when she was lucid not to allow anyone in her apt if it wasn't up to her strict standards...I didn't. When I called her friends and they told me they would be right over I said NO.
Some of them still don't speak to me and I could care less. I had a memorial for her and tried to do things as she wished.
I respect Jake's right to grieve as he wishes though I do worry that he needs to let it out...perhaps he will one day. I also know that Heath and Jake were the closest of friends...Jake is Matilda's Godfather and it has been reported elsewhere in Jakeverse that he is fulfilling his promises. Jake is a verbal open emotional person who is also deeply private and may even be paying homage to Heath by his very silence.
In a statement his PR stated that the injury wasn't serious. I, not a nurse or doctor, noticed that he doesn't always use the crutches and often he seems not to know how to use them. I've never been on crutches, but don't the docs or nurses have to teach you how to use them in the right way?
As for the friends of your mother who don't talk to you anymore. That's just low, they must understand it was your mom's wish and respect that.
As for Jake and Heath, i doubt anyone here knows (also the ones that claim to be in the know) how close they still were and what is going on.
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In a statement his PR stated that the injury wasn't serious. I, not a nurse or doctor, noticed that he doesn't always use the crutches and often he seems not to know how to use them. I've never been on crutches, but don't the docs or nurses have to teach you how to use them in the right way?
They should do, but don't always. Some years ago now I'd been using a walking stick for a couple of years before a physio thought to mention to me that I was doing it wrong - it'd never even occurred to me that there was a right or wrong way. Same thing back when I was at college and fell one night at a college disco and tore all the ligaments in my knee and got issued a pair of crutches by the hospital. Mind you, the emergency department was pretty hectic that night so I think they just wanted to get me out of there so they could get the next patient in!
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They should do, but don't always. Some years ago now I'd been using a walking stick for a couple of years before a physio thought to mention to me that I was doing it wrong - it'd never even occurred to me that there was a right or wrong way. Same thing back when I was at college and fell one night at a college disco and tore all the ligaments in my knee and got issued a pair of crutches by the hospital. Mind you, the emergency department was pretty hectic that night so I think they just wanted to get me out of there so they could get the next patient in!
You'd think a rich actor like Jake could afford better doctors and treatment! ;)
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Chiming in late to say I voted with - and this is unusual for me - the vast majority. I've believed all this time that Jake owes us, his fans, absolutely nothing when it comes to baring his personal, private pain, and he owes the media less than that.
I've always maintained that artists, in general, don't owe us anything except perhaps the best performance or piece that they can give at any given time. And I don't even know that they owe us that. But then that Protestant Work Ethic I was raised and regimented in rears its ugly head and tells me maybe they should feel they do. OK, so perhaps they owe us the best work they can do. Beyond that, they don't owe us Jack. So to speak.
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I agree that Jake doesn't owe us anything. But, this question isn't all about us either. And, it's not about his private pain or personal grief.
I've said from the beginning that if it was an intrusive effort by paparazzi to try to capture Jake's private emotions... that would be entirely inappropriate and something I would never want to see happen.
I do think it's entirely appropriate to expect a eulogy for Heath. It's about eulogizing a friend and one of his most significant colleagues in his career.
I still find his silence very perplexing, especially in light of gestures other colleagues have felt moved to make.
Also, just to re-iterate an interesting point made at some point earlier in this long-running discussion about "what's up with Jake" and the issue of tributes in general...
How would we feel if none of Heath's colleagues made the tributes and eulogies that they did? Clearly, Ang Lee, Anne Hathaway, Michelle Williams, Daniel Day Lewis, etc. also didn't owe us anything either in terms of a statement. So in an extreme hypothetical scenario there could have been no eulogies by Heath's filmmaking/celebrity colleagues, etc. But, of course, there are now so many tributes by professional colleagues, friends and family that there is a big thread here all about that. I think having those tributes out there is important to honoring Heath and those tributes seem important to many folks here on this forum. To me Jake continues to feel like a glaring omission amongst the list of tribute-makers.
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When my mother died recently, the hospice nurse was very helpful afterward. My brother and I would ask her, "Should we do such and such?" and she would reply, "Whatever is best for you. Some people do X, some people do Y. Whatever you feel most comfortable with is what you should do."
Everybody grieves in their own way, she said. There is no right or wrong.
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I agree that Jake doesn't owe us anything. But, this question isn't all about us either. And, it's not about his private pain or personal grief.
I've said from the beginning that if it was an intrusive effort by paparazzi to try to capture Jake's private emotions... that would be entirely inappropriate and something I would never want to see happen.
I do think it's entirely appropriate to expect a eulogy for Heath. It's about eulogizing a friend and one of his most significant colleagues in his career.
I still find his silence very perplexing, especially in light of gestures other colleagues have felt moved to make.
Also, just to re-iterate an interesting point made at some point earlier in this long-running discussion about "what's up with Jake" and the issue of tributes in general...
How would we feel if none of Heath's colleagues made the tributes and eulogies that they did? Clearly, Ang Lee, Anne Hathaway, Michelle Williams, Daniel Day Lewis, etc. also didn't owe us anything either in terms of a statement. So in an extreme hypothetical scenario there could have been no eulogies by Heath's filmmaking/celebrity colleagues, etc. But, of course, there are now so many tributes by professional colleagues, friends and family that there is a big thread here all about that. I think having those tributes out there is important to honoring Heath and those tributes seem important to many folks here on this forum. To me Jake continues to feel like a glaring omission amongst the list of tribute-makers.
Yes. But many of his other colleagues have also chosen not to say anything. I haven't heard anything from Christian Bale (maybe I just missed it). Or Terry Gilliam. Or Billy Bob Thornton. Or Todd Haynes. Or Matt Damon. Or his other siblings (beside his beloved sister Kate - didn't he have another brother and sister?) There are many people who've known him intimately and/or worked with him closely who have chosen not to eulogize him for whatever reasons. Why can't we respect that choice from Jake? Perhaps he feels he can't properly put into words what Heath meant to him and so trying to would do him a disservice. Or perhaps it's just too difficult in general. As has been said here many times, most recently by Katherine, everyone deals with grief in his own way. While I certainly would be comforted by a eulogy from Jake, as I've said, I can respect his choice not to make one.
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You should check out the tributes thread, there are a lot of tributes/quotes from Todd Hayness, he even dedicated Heath the ensemble award for IMT the whole cast and crew got. Christian Bale also payed tribute and recently did an interview, you can find it on youtube, where he talked about Heath. About Terry Gilliam i'm not sure, but i think he also said something.
About his sisters, all three sisters, Kate and the two half sisters, as well as the parents payed tributes. Wrote very moving eulogies!
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OK, so I missed a few. ::)
Really, even if every other person who has ever remotely known Heath has paid some sort of public tribute to him, it doesn't mean Jake is required to, also.
And really, would Heath want or expect anything more from him?
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And really, would Heath want or expect anything more from him?
I honestly don't know since i did not (in Heath's case)/don't know both men personally!
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Really, even if every other person who has ever remotely known Heath has paid some sort of public tribute to him, it doesn't mean Jake is required to, also.
And really, would Heath want or expect anything more from him?
Right. But, it does make Jake's omission from the list of tribute-makers glaring since these two were so associated with each other as public figures.
And, like Milan said, it's truly hard to know how to speculate about Heath's wishes in this regard. It is also hard to speculate what the situation would be like if the circumstances were reversed (this hypothetical has also come up before in this long-running discussion).
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True. But most people who really cared about someone who has died generally try to do what they think that person would have wanted, no?
Of course I can't truly know this in Jake's case, but it's the general truth, isn't it? Doesn't it stand to reason that if Heath had been the kind of person who would have expected all his closest friends and colleagues to eulogize him, Jake would have done that just out of respect for him?
I'm not trying to get those of you who are disappointed in Jake where this is concerned to change your feelings on the matter. They are what they are. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from. You see it as a glaring omission and conspicuous absense. I understand that, but I don't see it that way. That's all.
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I can just speak for myself, but if i died (hopefully not anytime soon), i certainly wouldn't have anything against if my family, friends and colleagues payed tribute and shared nice words about me.
If all the people who payed tribute to Heath chose not to do it instead, all we would have are those tabloid stories (i think which are mostly untrue anyway), those tributes provide a great counterpart and i'm very grateful to the people who did this, it certainly wasn't easy for a lot of them either, but i think they felt a kind of a responsibility to do it. And i respect that!
That's how i see it!
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If all the people who payed tribute to Heath chose not to do it instead, all we would have are those tabloid stories (i think which are mostly untrue anyway), those tributes provide a great counterpart and i'm very grateful to the people who did this, it certainly wasn't easy for a lot of them either, but i think they felt a kind of a responsibility to do it. And i respect that!
That's how i see it!
I think this is a good point.
This is all such an difficult issue to work through. :( I don't know why I keep finding myself worrying about this subject. Some days I think I've gotten passed it, but then other days... like today... it weighs on me a lot.
I really don't know why it's so hard for me to let this go. :(
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I think this is a good point.
This is all such an difficult issue to work through. :( I don't know why I keep finding myself worrying about this subject. Some days I think I've gotten passed it, but then other days... like today... it weighs on me a lot.
I really don't know why it's so hard for me to let this go. :(
I think it's still pretty fresh and i think this thread is great, so we all can share our thoughts about this subject. I think in a couple of months we won't think about this that much anymore. We will have to accept that he chose not to say anything and move on evantually. There is nothing we can do about it anyway! ;)
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I think it's still pretty fresh and i think this thread is great, so we all can share our thoughts about this subject. I think in a couple of months we won't think about this that much anymore. We will have to accept that he chose not to say anything and move on evantually. There is nothing we can do about it anyway! ;)
I think you're right about all this still seeming rather new and raw. And, sure enough, there's nothing to be done about it.
:'(
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I can just speak for myself, but if i died (hopefully not anytime soon), i certainly wouldn't have anything against if my family, friends and colleagues payed tribute and shared nice words about me.
If all the people who payed tribute to Heath chose not to do it instead, all we would have are those tabloid stories (i think which are mostly untrue anyway), those tributes provide a great counterpart and i'm very grateful to the people who did this, it certainly wasn't easy for a lot of them either, but i think they felt a kind of a responsibility to do it. And i respect that!
That's how i see it!
I don't think Heath would have anything *against* the folks who did pay tribute so far - of course he wouldn't. I'm just saying I don't think, from all I've read about him, that he was the kind of person who expected people to.
Ultimately, Jake responded in a way that felt right for Jake. Again, the thought occurs to me that maybe it was/still is just too plain difficult a subject for him to address in a public way at this time - even just in the form of a eulogizing statement. I can understand that and don't feel disappointed in him for it. He's human just like the rest of us. When my Mom died suddenly, and not unlike the manner in which Heath died, I couldn't talk about it with anyone - couldn't even mention her name - for months. Had I been asked to eulogize her during that time, I would have turned and run. And that was my mother, and the best friend I've ever had or ever will have. When people expressed their sympathy at work and elsewhere later, all I could manage was to mutter an Ennis-like "thank you" while purposely avoiding meeting their eyes, because I knew if I did and saw the caring there, I'd break down. And I wasn't ready to break down. I guess this is why I understand him on this one. I really don't think he's remained silent out of pure selfishness. I think he's remained silent out of the inability to express himself properly where this is concerned.
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You'd think a rich actor like Jake could afford better doctors and treatment! ;)
You know I didn't drop over to have a give and take discussion about Jake's money or his choice of health care providers. I have no interest in those issues. When I came over last week, I was shocked to see a poll being conducted about Jake; about deeply personal and intimate issues;his grief over Heath and whether he should or should not have made a statement. I decided to post.
Healing encompasses more than just money. Rich people die just as fast as poor people depending on the cause of the illness. Any musculoskeletal injury still causing problems after 4 days is going to become a problem, and will require various modalities to heal properly, i.e. Game Ready which has to be prescribed by a doctor.
You can be as rich as Croesus, but if you injure yourself on March 12, and you are still not back to normal by March 16-17, you will need to pursue other modalities to heal properly. The four day rule always works.
It seems that some posters here are angry, upset and put out with Jake--I know what snark is-- so I will not come back here. We've lost one of our boys and we need to thank God that we have one of the BBM male actors left. None of us is promised tomorrow and I can't do this.
Enough is enough.
s
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Snark? I haven't seen any snark.
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You know I didn't drop over to have a give and take discussion about Jake's money or his choice of health care providers. I have no interest in those issues. When I came over last week, I was shocked to see a poll being conducted about Jake; about deeply personal and intimate issues;his grief over Heath and whether he should or should not have made a statement. I decided to post.
Healing encompasses more than just money. Rich people die just as fast as poor people depending on the cause of the illness. Any musculoskeletal injury still causing problems after 4 days is going to become a problem, and will require various modalities to heal properly, i.e. Game Ready which has to be prescribed by a doctor.
You can be as rich as Croesus, but if you injure yourself on March 12, and you are still not back to normal by March 16-17, you will need to pursue other modalities to heal properly. The four day rule always works.
It seems that some posters here are angry, upset and put out with Jake--I know what snark is-- so I will not come back here. We've lost one of our boys and we need to thank God that we have one of the BBM male actors left. None of us is promised tomorrow and I can't do this.
Enough is enough.
s
I'm sorry, but this shows that you haven't read the replies on this thread. Nobody is angry with Jake, at the most some people are dissappointed with him or baffled by his silence. We all still respect him as the person who gave us Jack just as we respect Heath for giving us Ennis.
This is not LJ where vicious rants were posted against Jake, this is just a discussion thread where people can post their feelings without being badgered or misinterpreted.
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I'm sorry, but this shows that you haven't read the replies on this thread. Nobody is angry with Jake, at the most some people are dissappointed with him or baffled by his silence. We all still respect him as the person who gave us Jack just as we respect Heath for giving us Ennis.
This is not LJ where vicious rants were posted against Jake, this is just a discussion thread where people can post their feelings without being badgered or misinterpreted.
Exactly right Mel. I voted for "I think it,s weird" but again that,s just my opinion. I certainly don,t think any less of him for not saying anything and it doesn,t mean I won,t watch any more of his movies. I still think it,s a bit odd that he hasn,t said anything, BUT, that is entirely his choice and he obviously has his reasons which are personal to him. He doesn,t owe us an explanation and if chooses to be silent then so be it. By the way I havn,t seen any vicious rants against Jake on LJ? Where are they? I understand totally that after Heaths death people were angry, upset and a million and one other things, but that does not give them the right to attack poor Jake. By the way, what doesn snark mean? I,ve never heard of that before. :-\
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I´m not very sure if we must keep on posting here.I´m afraid sooner or later it could perfectly end in gossip and personal attacks.IMO,and please,that nobody gets angry with me for saying this...
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You know I didn't drop over to have a give and take discussion about Jake's money or his choice of health care providers. I have no interest in those issues. When I came over last week, I was shocked to see a poll being conducted about Jake; about deeply personal and intimate issues;his grief over Heath and whether he should or should not have made a statement. I decided to post.
Healing encompasses more than just money. Rich people die just as fast as poor people depending on the cause of the illness. Any musculoskeletal injury still causing problems after 4 days is going to become a problem, and will require various modalities to heal properly, i.e. Game Ready which has to be prescribed by a doctor.
You can be as rich as Croesus, but if you injure yourself on March 12, and you are still not back to normal by March 16-17, you will need to pursue other modalities to heal properly. The four day rule always works.
It seems that some posters here are angry, upset and put out with Jake--I know what snark is-- so I will not come back here. We've lost one of our boys and we need to thank God that we have one of the BBM male actors left. None of us is promised tomorrow and I can't do this.
Enough is enough.
s
I was replying to a post where the poster said that s/he experienced that doctors and nurses not always take their time to treat their patients properly. And my reply was that you'd think rich actors/people can afford better doctors or treatment. I don't get what was offensive about it.
I also didn't notice vicious rants against Jake on LJ. I've seen plenty of fights whether Jake and Reese are a real couple or not though. ::) I think his BBM fans are the only ones who wonder because of the lack of statement/tribute, other fans of his don't seem to think about it too much.
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I don't post on here but I have been reading it.
I guess my question and thinking has always been how
could Jake making any kind of statement be our business.
I suspect even if he said something, someone would say
it wasn't enough, etc.
How could anything he says or doesn't say change our life?
Just being "disappointed" in him for not is kind of wrong to
me.... cause... why does it matter.
It's a private matter and should have no effect on any of us.
FWIW
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I also didn't notice vicious rants against Jake on LJ.
I did.
Don't feel any differently about Jake; but I sure as hell have lost a lot of respect for some of his "fans."
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I did.
Don't feel any differently about Jake; but I sure as hell have lost a lot of respect for some of his "fans."
Well if some people said mean things about Jake on LJ, i suppose they weren't real fans in the first place and use his relationship with Reese and silence about Heath to attack hiim. They probably look for reasons to do so.
His fans don't always have to understand/agree with his actions, they also have a right to question some of his actions, but in a respectful way of course. The other people you mentioned weren't real fans in the first place!
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I did.
Don't feel any differently about Jake; but I sure as hell have lost a lot of respect for some of his "fans."
It personally affected me to see those who styled themselves as "Jake fans" turn on him, like he was revealed to be a god made of clay after all and deserved to be attacked. And yes, I have seen some of the commentary about Jake as an unjustified attack on him personally.
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I think it must have been only a few people. What i notice when someone posts his pics there... most of the posters are drooling! ;)
Every actor/actress gets nasty posts from haters. It's like that unfortunately! Though i understand it's annyoing like some posters on imdb.com who come to Heath's board and call him "a piece of crap junkie". Like i said, it's annoying, but we can't do anything about people like that!
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Like i said, it's annoying, but we can't do anything about people like that!
And I'm sure the celebrities are completely used to it, if they pay any attention at all. Like a rich successful movie star is going to let himself get upset over what some pimply troll on imdb said about him! :laugh: I'm sure they save it for comments by professional critics and industry bigwigs -- people with actual power and/or credibility.
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Well if some people said mean things about Jake on LJ, i suppose they weren't real fans in the first place and use his relationship with Reese and silence about Heath to attack hiim. They probably look for reasons to do so.
His fans don't always have to understand/agree with his actions, they also have a right to question some of his actions, but in a respectful way of course. The other people you mentioned weren't real fans in the first place!
Yes, I understand the appeal of dismissing as "not real" anything that discomforting. People who are emotionally attached to intolerant religions do it all the time.
However, the names attached to many of these comments were people who have been very active in BBM discussions and forums in general and in fanfiction in particular.
But how are you going to spin remarks such as:
"pussy bitched and lily livered"
"I swear to the Lord of Cheetos if Jake ever showed up in my neighbourhood and walked around to buy sneakers, I'd show him some Canadian hostilatility."
"don't know what to believe,jake can't be so bad,i hate reese witherspoon,still waiting for this nightmare to be over."
Jake gyllenho is surely a hag bag to the 9th degree for traeting his buddy so shabbily. May Jake one day rot in hell."
Not to mention all the pseudo-righteous sermonettes about 'freedom of speech.' Sorry, I don't agree that the people who turned on Jake weren't "fans" just because their behavior was disillusioning and/or disturbing.
There were a few bright spots. One person quoted Johnny Depp from another context: ""I refuse to be a part of this morbid circus", and one peeved fan was honest enough to describe herself as a "bitter old hag."
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Wow Marge! Those are really harsh and disturbing comments! :o :-\ Where did you find them?
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My take on some of the more extreme comments is that they come from fans who put Jake on a rather high pedestal, and whether they acknowledge it or not, transferred a lot of the fictional dynamic of Jack and Ennis's relationship to Heath and Jake, despite real life circumstances proving otherwise (the fact that both men are unquestionably heterosexual and have had many relationships with high profile actresses and models.) The chatter that pervaded the Jake fan threads from early in 2006 have traditionally been full of negative feedback for any woman that Jake dated, some with a not so subtle urging for him to "admit that he is in love with Heath." Not only was the fantasy illusion of some secret affair between Jake and Heath permanently shattered with Heath's death, but the consolation prize of having a public witness to Jake's grief - the grief of a lover rather than a friend - was also denied to fans.
Whether fans want to admit it or not, Jake's decision to keep his mourning private did contradict the fantasy narrative that has been built up for a couple of years now and fed a frenetic and heavily-trafficked RPS fan base. I never had so many squealing comments to anything I have written as I did for my RPS drabble series, which was in no way explicit... it has always been something of a mystery to me how deeply devoted RPS fans have been to the Jake-Heath fantasy.
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I wonder if some folk felt Jake was indirectly downplaying his role in Brokeback Mountain. Seems to me, future explicit statements by him about Brokeback will clarify the confusion. If one has been part of a movie that has become "canonical", a movie that raised Jake Gyllenhaal to iconic status, it ain't gonna be easy avoiding comment down the years.
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Well, i remember how nasty some "fans" were towards Michelle Williams and sometimes towards Heath, because they wanted Heath to be with Jake (back then single). Some of you must remember those days. There is nothing you can do about disillusioned people!
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louise van hine, i think most fans who believe that Jake is gay think his boyfriend is actor Austin Nichols, there are even fansites dedicated to them.
Very few people actually linked Jake to Heath lately, those who did, mostly did it in fan fics. That's what i noticed!
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Slightly OT but, speaking of nasty remarks on the internet, I just read a story on Slate about nasty remarks that have been posted on YouTube about that video of the laughing baby!
http://www.slate.com/id/2189281/ (http://www.slate.com/id/2189281/)
Things like, this child must be on drugs, he's possessed by Satan, he's got a big head, insane dwarf, etc. etc. If people can find ugly things to say about a cute happy baby, what won't they say about a grown man!
Apparently when people feel they are speaking anonymously, politeness and even common decency often go out the window.
>:( ::) ???
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Apparently when people feel they are speaking anonymously, politeness and even common decency often go out the window.
I agree!
It's sad that people said so nasty things about the poor baby. I found the laughing baby so cute. If i were a parent, i wouldn't post videos of my kids online though.
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Apparently when people feel they are speaking anonymously, politeness and even common decency often go out the window.
>:( ::) ???
So true. If you hide behind a screen name you can say whatever you want, safe in the knowledge that no-one knows who you are, and if the residents get p***** off with your trolling, off you go to somewhere else and start it all up again. The web allows you to say and do things you would never consider saying to someone face to face.
Irritating though they are, these sad delusional people are more to be pitied than blamed really if they have so little in their own lives that they have to invent other people's to make them happy (though I still have a zero tolerance policy towards them)
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Well, i remember how nasty some "fans" were towards Michelle Williams and sometimes towards Heath, because they wanted Heath to be with Jake (back then single). Some of you must remember those days. There is nothing you can do about disillusioned people!
Wow, I wasn't around here back then for any of that stuff. I think people were projecting their feelings about BBM and wanting Jake and Heath to be just like the characters in the movie so the relationship would go on. Kind of like reversing an unhappy ending.
louise van hine, i think most fans who believe that Jake is gay think his boyfriend is actor Austin Nichols, there are even fansites dedicated to them.
Very few people actually linked Jake to Heath lately, those who did, mostly did it in fan fics. That's what i noticed!
Well there's another rumor I've never heard. I don't know the name Austion Nichols. Maybe if I see his face I'll know who he is. I wonder what their basis is for believing that.
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OT:
The "basis" are the blind items from E Online gossipist Ted Casablanca. There are blind items about a young, closeted Hollywood actor who has a secret boyfriend, who is also an actor, but by far not as talented and successful as the other. Some or even many believe the closeted actor is Jake and that his friend and co-star from TDAT is his secret boyfriend. Ted C. also keeps insinuating that the closeted actor is Jake.
I personally think Ted C. heavily exaggerated or even made up the items, but still some people believe them.
And these pictures, for whatever reason, were proof for some people that they are a couple. I don't see it, but oh well...
http://www.iheartjakemedia.com/thumbnails.php?album=191 (http://www.iheartjakemedia.com/thumbnails.php?album=191)
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It's probably because they are sitting so close they are touching. Most straight men won't do that. I mean that is what i've experienced. Most straight men i've known won't hug each other. They give that hand shake, back slap combo. LOL!
It could be a regional difference or it could be a social difference. What I mean is I live in the south so maybe it's not a big deal in California or New York and by social I mean maybe among the "Hollywood" crowd it's not a big deal. I don't see why men are so afraid of touching each other. Women are allowed to hug, kiss each other on the cheek, go to the bathroom together, etc. but men just don't do those things. Why? I guess it's just the long ingrained differences between what is socially acceptable for men and women. I'm rambling but I think you get my point. ha ha
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It could be a regional difference or it could be a social difference.
I think it's probably also an age thing as well to a certain degree. Men in the older generations generally are a lot more reserved in their friendships (at least here in the UK anyhow) whereas younger men tend to be a lot more demonstrative, some anyhow.
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I think I will repeat what I said on Louise's thread about the essay she wrote about the Jake backlash:
I have a friends lock on my lj and so I have quite an extensive friends list and I sometimes scroll through my friends page. It amazes me how vicious people can be in this matter. The posts I have seen on there that reflect so much hatred towards Jake just continue to baffle me. Didn't he give us as much a gift by giving us Jack as Heath gave us giving us Ennis?
Personally, I feel disappointed that Jake hasn't said anything, but I don't think he's worth less than before this all happened. For a lot of people it's hard to contemplate that the two of them probably weren't best friends or friends at all. I also believe that they weren't that close anymore, as they moved in different circles.
I agree with Louise that a lot of people who read RPS and are unable/ unwilling to distinguish fact from fiction, are so devoted to the idea of them together, it's almost scary. It's the discussion that ran out of hand a while back in which we asked if people should still be reading and writing RPS after Heath's death. I have never read or written RPS and it continues to amaze me that it's so popular.
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Well there's another rumor I've never heard. I don't know the name Austion Nichols. Maybe if I see his face I'll know who he is. I wonder what their basis is for believing that.
The basis? A very cute picture of Jake and Austin together at a basketball game.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/Maine/jake-gyllenhaal-austin-nichols.jpg)
From one picture, a romance was born.
L
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From one picture, a romance was born.
I know, that's so ridiculous!
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I think it's probably also an age thing as well to a certain degree. Men in the older generations generally are a lot more reserved in their friendships (at least here in the UK anyhow) whereas younger men tend to be a lot more demonstrative, some anyhow.
Bliss, it's like that in the U.S too. It's crazy that people see a picture and start a rumor off just that. By the way, the look on Jake's face in that 3rd one is so adorable!
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By the way, the look on Jake's face in that 3rd one is so adorable!
Agreed, but i think Austin Nichols is cute too. ;D
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Jake is still trying to get over Heath's passing. So am I. He doesn't have to say anything about it if he doesn't want to. God, I wish people would just leave Jake alone. Because these days, the monstrous media and others are picking on him and insulting him. Everytime that happens, I feel so sad that I have so much sympathy for him than anyone else. He's dealing with the stupid public eye that are trashing him and trying to make him out as a clown. >:( It makes me angry that they do that! He's dealing with no longer being able to see, talk, and laugh with his best friend in the world for Christ's sake!
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By the way, the look on Jake's face in that 3rd one is so adorable!
I know don't you just want to slice him up and eat him like cake!?!
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I don't know about the slicing him up part, but the rest applies.
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He's an actor, he was a friend of heath's, he was godfather to their child..he is articulate and he should have said a simple statement on the passing of his friend and co-star.
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has he ever publically mentioned heaths passing yet?
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Not to my knowledge...sadly life is short for all the rest of us living in a frenzy trying to get everything done..and this decade of 2000 is a strange one with Sept. 11, father dying....etc....but we dive in to the next exciting moment to drive away morbid memories...actors too go on with their new movies, girlfriends...nothing permanent, just another giddy rush.
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Obvioulsy he has never done an interview, where he has been asked about Heath's passing, and that indicates to me that he has made it an "off limits" question.
But then again, has he done ANY interviews in the past 12 months.
I guess if he has, it was to promote a new film, and as has been seen most times before, in those circumstances, they ONLY want to talk about the film they are promoting.
I have also thought too, that maybe he was caught in the crossfire when Heath and Michelle broke up, one or the other using him as a sounding board, and as happens, in such cases, there could have been some words spoken that he may regret now, and would not want to seem hypocritical, if those words were not in Heaths favour.
Who knows......I would hope that it was not that they had fallen out.
Jake seems a very deep and meaningful person, maybe he just cannot find the right words.
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To be honest, I'm very puzzled by thoughts that Jake owes anyone some sort of statement about Heath's passing.
Yes others have come forward to give a statement. That was their choice to do so.
Death and how one handles it is a personal matter. I can't imagine being so intrusive as to expect someone to say something at a time like that if they choose not to.
If anyone ever approached me at the time a family member died, and wanted me to issue a public statement, the response they'd get from me is "That's not any of your business."
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Well said Chucky......I agree, how we mourn is very personal, and we have the right to do so in our own way.
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I dont see anyone hurrying off to any of his other costars, to demand a statement. No one has
asked Matt Damon, his thoughts. Nor have they asked his costars in Ned Kelly like Orlando Bloom.
Same with his costars in Candy etc. I think that most of these kinds of remarks are coming from the
fans of BBM. Because of the apparent friendship that they formed on that movie, and his being
godfather to their daughter. I am very disappointed that they now think they have the right to dictate
to him how he should feel about the death of his friend. Then demand he give them his private
thoughts about it.
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I dont see anyone hurrying off to any of his other costars, to demand a statement. No one has
asked Matt Damon, his thoughts. Nor have they asked his costars in Ned Kelly like Orlando Bloom.
Same with his costars in Candy etc. I think that most of these kinds of remarks are coming from the
fans of BBM. Because of the apparent friendship that they formed on that movie, and his being
godfather to their daughter. I am very disappointed that they now think they have the right to dictate
to him how he should feel about the death of his friend. Then demand he give them his private
thoughts about it.
I dont think anyone here is "demanding" or "dictating" anything......of course we are curious because of our connection to BBM, and this poll only asks our opinion.
We all love Jake and whether he comments or not, makes no difference to how one feels about him, and most agree that it is his personal choice as to how he mourns the loss of his friend.
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I was one of the people who originally was dissapointed that Jake didnt say or write anything about Heath's passing, but I feel different now that some time has passed. I have more of an understanding that Jake held Heath very close to his heart. I dont feel he owes us or me or anyone an explanation. Jake is going through much to much of an emotional grieving process. I believe he went through and continues to go through a lot of hurt at the lose of such a close friend. No explanations needed. I just didnt see Jake as such and emotional person like any one of us who has lost a loved one. I saw him as a Hollywood star. We dont broadcast our feelings to teh world. Why should Jake? If I could change my answer to he owes us nothing that is what i would do.
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I was one of the people who originally was dissapointed that Jake didnt say or write anything about Heath's passing, but I feel different now that some time has passed. I have more of an understanding that Jake held Heath very close to his heart. I dont feel he owes us or me or anyone an explanation. Jake is going through much to much of an emotional grieving process. I believe he went through and continues to go through a lot of hurt at the lose of such a close friend. No explanations needed. I just didnt see Jake as such and emotional person like any one of us who has lost a loved one. I saw him as a Hollywood star. We dont broadcast our feelings to teh world. Why should Jake? If I could change my answer to he owes us nothing that is what i would do.
Wow ! you have just summed up exactly how I have been feeling of late. Time has changed my opinion too. Why do we forget that these people we adore, are actually humans as well as film stars. I do anyway, and it serves me well to be given a reminder some times.
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For months I expected/waited for Jake to say something, now I know it was more to do with myself, if Jake had said something it would have been of comfort to me. I no longer expect anything, respect his silence, we all cope with grief in different ways.
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For months I expected/waited for Jake to say something, now I know it was more to do with myself, if Jake had said something it would have been of comfort to me. I no longer expect anything, respect his silence, we all cope with grief in different ways.
Exactly it would be to comfort me and soothe my pain and hurt. Heath is so very missed. Now that some time has passed, I have dealt with some of my mourning. Of course with the awards Heath is sure to continue to get for his portrayal as the joker I feel more sadness for the loss of such a talented actor and star among stars. Heath will always be one of "our boys" from up on Brokeback.
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"Our boys" is right Dev........
Heath and Jake will always be Ennis and Jack to us.
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"Our boys" is right Dev........
Heath and Jake will always be Ennis and Jack to us.
Always :)
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human relationships are so complex. Maybe the were very close. Maybe they discovered that after BBM, they really didn´t have so much in common. It´s impossible for anyone to say. Either way, I´m sure Jake grieved Heath and whatever his reasons were not to go public, I feel confident that those reasons felt valid to him.
Me too would have loved to (still do) hear Jake speak about Heath, but like someone said, that has more to do with my feelings and my own comfort (and yes - curiosity), than anything else.
we have to settle for the fact that we simply don´t know anything about their relationship or about Jake´s feelings or reasons for staying quiet.
Let be, let be..
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Now that time has passed, I've come to terms with the Jake issue more. I'm one (as you all know) who thought that Jake owed it to Heath to make some kind of eulogy. I don't think Jake owes us... I think he owes Heath. A eulogy is about honoring the person who passed away... it's not about appeasing a fan base. Although, it's interesting that this issue is still bothering us and nagging at us (with the revival of this thread) after all this time.
From a professional perspective... Heath was Jake's most important co-star in Jake's most significant cinematic achievement to date. BBM will be the movie that gives (or has given) both Jake and Heath a true place in cinematic history (not to mention it was BBM that gave Jake so many of his prestigious awards). Sure Heath had many other co-stars... many of them have made eulogies and some haven't. But, I don't think there's any question... even among non-Brokies... that Jake has a special status as "the" co-star. When people think about the BBM poster... which is one of the main images many people in the public have of Heath... and will be one of the images to follow Heath into history... it's a joined image of both Jake and Heath. So, from a professional standpoint I think it would have been more than appropriate for Jake to make a eulogy.
But, after seeing how brutal the questions about Heath seemed to be for Maggie to get through during a Golden Globes red carpet interview that I happened to see... I begin to understand better how almost impossible it would probably be for Jake to deal with similar questions. I still think he's very deliberately avoiding interview situations, and I think it probably has more to do with strong personal, emotons than anything else (but of course, my sense of this is purely my interpretation, and could be way off base).
"Our boys" is right Dev........
Heath and Jake will always be Ennis and Jack to us.
And, I want to add that I completely agree with this. I like Jake and Heath equally... I'm neither a Heathan nor a Gyllenhaalic... but I have an everlasting affection for both of them because of their status in relation to BBM. Nothing I've said about Jake is meant to be a criticism... it's about my confusion over the situation. And, I'm still worrying about this (like many of us clearly) after all this time because of the above-mentioned lasting affection.
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human relationships are so complex. Maybe the were very close. Maybe they discovered that after BBM, they really didn´t have so much in common. It´s impossible for anyone to say. Either way, I´m sure Jake grieved Heath and whatever his reasons were not to go public, I feel confident that those reasons felt valid to him.
Me too would have loved to (still do) hear Jake speak about Heath, but like someone said, that has more to do with my feelings and my own comfort (and yes - curiosity), than anything else.
we have to settle for the fact that we simply don´t know anything about their relationship or about Jake´s feelings or reasons for staying quiet.
Let be, let be..
It could be that even if they were close, the fact that Jake is Matilda's godfather makes me think so, their job, lifestyle "kept them apart". Actors are people costantly on the move, different continents, time zones and so on. No wonder their divorce rate is high, IMHO.
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From a professional perspective... Heath was Jake's most important co-star in Jake's most significant cinematic achievement to date. BBM will be the movie that gives (or has given) both Jake and Heath a true place in cinematic history (not to mention it was BBM that gave Jake so many of his prestigious awards). Sure Heath had many other co-stars
Well, we and a lot of film organizations and his fellow actors think BBM is the most significant cinematic achievement Heath had applied himself to to date. There's no reason to think Heath or Jake thought so. Yes, they got awards or were nominated, but for them they could have just thought "Hey, my first stepping stone up." Or as Heath himself said at one ceremony/Red Carpet the most important thing BBM had done for him was to give him "a family". Heath wasn't about accolades or making history, he was just about the quality of work and the variety of roles. He may have thought that his role in "Monsters Ball" or maybe "Batman" was his best performance. I don't recall if he ever said. Jake is concerned with quality too, to some degree, but I won't cast aspersion on either of them for starring in romantic comedies or blockbusters. It is a job when you get right down to it and that may have been what both of them thought about BBM. They're glad that it turned out to be more, but nevertheless they didn't want to be forever associated with it primarily.
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They're glad that it turned out to be more, but nevertheless they didn't want to be forever associated with it primarily.
Well, we don't know that either.
And, I'd assume that they'd both want to forever be associated with all the films they worked on... not to mention their best film.
When you think about Jake and Heath as "special" co-stars... it actually brings Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet to mind and the special status they share together as co-stars of an important film, and longstanding friends (in the case of Kate and Leo). Their (Leo and Kate's) status as "special co-stars" was actually made very clear in the way they were treated during the Golden Globes coverage this year. Despite the fact that both Leo and Kate have had many important roles with lots of famous actors... there's an acknowledgement that they will forever be linked in a special way both in the public eye and in cinematic history. Leo and Kate are the icons associated with a love story that impacted so many people (not me actually, I never enjoyed Titanic) and I think that Heath and Jake have that kind of status, especially in the gay community.
It's interesting to think about since it seems that the BBM poster was designed with the Titanic poster. To me, it seems that Jake and Heath have the potential to be that kind of duo as time goes along in terms of permanent association. This is especially the case for Heath due to his tragic passing and career that's been cut short. Even with Heath's important role in TDK, I don't think that those co-stars rise to the same level of association as Jake does for Heath. And, I think this is particularly the case where serious cinematic history is concerned.
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Well, we don't know that either.
And, I'd assume that they'd both want to forever be associated with all the films they worked on... not to mention their best film.
When you think about Jake and Heath as "special" co-stars... it actually brings Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet to mind and the special status they share together as co-stars of an important film, and longstanding friends (in the case of Kate and Leo). Their (Leo and Kate's) status as "special co-stars" was actually made very clear in the way they were treated during the Golden Globes coverage this year. Despite the fact that both Leo and Kate have had many important roles with lots of famous actors... there's an acknowledgement that they will forever be linked in a special way both in the public eye and in cinematic history. Leo and Kate are the icons associated with a love story that impacted so many people (not me actually, I never enjoyed Titanic) and I think that Heath and Jake have that kind of status, especially in the gay community.
It's interesting to think about since it seems that the BBM poster was designed with the Titanic poster. To me, it seems that Jake and Heath have the potential to be that kind of duo as time goes along in terms of permanent association. This is especially the case for Heath due to his tragic passing and career that's been cut short. Even with Heath's important role in TDK, I don't think that those co-stars rise to the same level of association as Jake does for Heath. And, I think this is particularly the case where serious cinematic history is concerned.
Perhaps, but Leo and Kate are both straight actors. An off-screen close friendship between a man and woman who starred in the most money-making love story of all time is something that plays well to Hollywood, the media and to the fans. It does nothing to hurt their careers and can even enhance it Both Jake and Heath are straight actors (so far as we know). Maintaining a close friendship off screen is something both men might have had, but it doesn't play very well to Hollywood because they played two gay men. This can lead to rumors, to type-casting and can be damaging to both their careers. Hollywood is not totally on board yet with the idea that outwardly gay men can be leading men. They may be proud of their work with good cause, and be friends of a sort off camera, but they might not have wanted to be associated primarily with a movie about two gay men sorry to say.
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Perhaps, but Leo and Kate are both straight actors. An off-screen close friendship between a man and woman who starred in the most money-making love story of all time is something that plays well to Hollywood, the media and to the fans. It does nothing to hurt their careers and can even enhance it Both Jake and Heath are straight actors (so far as we know). Maintaining a close friendship off screen is something both men might have had, but it doesn't play very well to Hollywood because they played two gay men. This can lead to rumors, to type-casting and can be damaging to both their careers. Hollywood is not totally on board yet with the idea that outwardly gay men can be leading men. They may be proud of their work with good cause, and be friends of a sort off camera, but they might not have wanted to be associated primarily with a movie about two gay men sorry to say.
Well, I certainly hope this isn't the case. And, when thinking about Jake in particular, I recall him being interviewed on a red carpet during the BBM days (it may even have been the Oscars red carpet back then) and he said he would never be ashamed or embarassed about anything having to do with the content of BBM. He seemed affronted by the questioner who asked about his comfort level in being such a promiment figure in a now-iconic gay movie. I think Jake is sensitive and genuinely understanding enough about gay issues (I'd assume, especially since he played Jack Twist... and probably has an understanding of that character beyond what many of us imagine) that he wouldn't let any element of homophobic reaction to BBM impact his decision about whether or not to offer a eulogy to Heath. If so, some kind of tremendous step backwards has taken place... in terms of bowing to homophobic attitudes. And, I really don't believe that of Jake. I think and would hope he would rise above that kind of concern.
I still believe his silence probably has to do with strong personal emotions... but all of this is clearly speculative. And, these questions will continue to nag at us. I still think a lot of the Brokie community is waiting for some kind of closure or resolution about the Jake question.
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I don't Jake owes us, the fans, anything. I think he made his peace personally with Heath in his own way. He was very silent, and unseen, if you remember, right after it happened. To me, looking at all the photos and watching the videos and interviews done with them around the time when the movie came out, it showed that Heath & Jake were pretty good friends. I think you have to be a very special friend of someone if you are asked to be their child's godfather. Everyone grieves in their own way. I think Jake chose to keep it personal. Someday he may mention something about Heath, or BBM. It's almost inevitable, isn't it, that the topic would come up at some point in the future?
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I don't Jake owes us, the fans, anything.
I agree that I don't think this question is about appeasing his fan base, to me it's about doing something to honor Heath.
I'm sure it will come up at some point for Jake. He still seems to be deliberately trying to avoid a lot interviews and especially spontaneous interviews like red carpet comments. But, I also do think it's inevitable that questions will be put to him in some forum at some point on the subject of Heath.
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Della and all, don't "straightjacket" Jake or Heath, or Leo or Kate for that matter!! Their sexual orientation is their own business and certainly not something for us to judge or comment on.
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I think it would have been nice for Jake to have said something, if not for Heath's sake, then certainly out of respect for Matilda, his goddaughter.
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I really haven't been in the brokie loop much of lately but if Jake didn't say anything about Heath's passing I guess that is sort of odd. Perhaps he was very distraught about it. I know when someone close to me has died in the past...well I just didn't know what to say. Maybe it was the same for him...who knows?
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I don,t really care any more wether he says anything or not. I guess it,s no ones business but his.
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Same with his costars in Candy etc.
Abby Cornish paid tribute. :)
Anyway, I'm one of those who thought it would have been great if Jake paid some sort of tribute to balance out the rag rubbish written about Heath. That's why i'm grateful for all the paid tributes from family, friends, co-stars etc. Jake decided to stay silent, he has his reasons. I don't expect him to say anything anymore, to be honest i don't even want him to talk about Heath when promoting one of his upcoming movies. I think that'd be tacky and that's why i think he'll continue to stay silent. I'm ok with it, it doesn't bother me anymore.
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I've never really been bothered by it. He had his reasons, and ours is not to wonder why. I've always kind of thought that Heath would be bothered and bewildered by all the statements others have made - he hated drawing any kind of attention to himself. At least, that's what his closest friends seem to say about him.
I've actually always felt really bad for Jake. He obviously (to me) was quite distraught over it all. His silence speaks volumes to that effect. Had he come right out and made some kind of statement right away, I'd have figured at least he was OK. My heart ached for him that he didn't.
People very close to me sometimes ask me about my Dad. I still can't talk about him (because if I start, it rips me apart inside). I think you've gotta respect that everyone deals with huge losses like this in their own way, and one way isn't better than another. You've just gotta do what you've gotta do.
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^^ Exactly. There really isn't a right or wrong way to greive. Everyone does it in their own way. Some people just cannot talk about it. I don't doubt Jake was deeply affected by Heath's passing. So affected that he just can't talk about it. At least not to the public.
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Jake is in the May 2010 issue of GQ talking about Heath's death...
http://justjared.buzznet.com/2010/04/13/jake-gyllenhaal-gq-cover-may-2010/
On how Heath’s death affected him: “I don’t really like talking about it. That period of time was…it was difficult. He was very sensitive. He didn’t always have a sense of performance in his everyday life. He knew who he was. I think actors very often, they know how to present something, and that’s part of their job. I think he was just really sensitive. We often used to do a lot of things together, because people were very interested in him and I think we felt safe together. Even when we did Brokeback and stuff, it was like my work was the only thing that mattered to me. It was like I could only understand or define myself through doing that. Life, I didn’t totally understand. And I think I was afraid of life. And I had success in my work, enough success that you could keep going back there. But after that happened…I think I recognized that it was work. And I recognized that this is for real.”
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Very interesting...I don't think he's been able to talk about it up until now.
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I was terribly affected by my brothers death. Every
one I spoke to, and anyone that asked me about it, made
me start to cry. That is awfully embaressing and just puts
you right in the same spot that you were when it first happened.
You had rather not talk about it at all, because you don't want
to feel worse than you already do, by discussing it. He lost
Heath under a very difficult situation. I lost my brother the way
that left me feeling the same. Unprepared, is to put it mildly.
He doesn't need to put himself in that situation, in order to satisfy
fan curiosity. That is all it would be, and the only reason for him
to have to do it. That is mean of us, to expect him to put himself
through that just so we can feel better.
The justification that others have given. Others have said different things. Has no bearing at all on it. That was them. This is him.
People need to let him grieve in the way that he feels is right for
him. To do otherwise is a disrespect to him, and even Heath. He was a very quiet soul, and didn't like hurting others. Let alone someone he loved as a dear friend. After all, when it comes to life or
death, it was just a movie.
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Mr. Gyllenhall is an actor who was incredibly lucky to have taken part in Brokeback Mountain: it transformed him from an up-and-coming actor into an on-demand bankable star, but that's only one of the most minor reasons that the film was so much more than 'just a movie.' One only has to read the online comments people have made over the last four years of the transformative changes people have made in their lives as a direct result of Brokeback: I've lost 60lbs and actually talk with people now, dramatically life-affecting changes which have opened up the world to me, and they were made as a direct result of the impact of Brokeback: and I'm not the only one.
It's difficult to lose a loved one. Anyone who has, like me, can sympathize, for what that's worth. I took care of my parents up until they died, so although I can only know your loss to an extent, I certainly feel for you. Please accept my sympathy on the loss of your brother.
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Jake is in the May 2010 issue of GQ talking about Heath's death...
http://justjared.buzznet.com/2010/04/13/jake-gyllenhaal-gq-cover-may-2010/
On how Heath’s death affected him: “I don’t really like talking about it. That period of time was…it was difficult. He was very sensitive. He didn’t always have a sense of performance in his everyday life. He knew who he was. I think actors very often, they know how to present something, and that’s part of their job. I think he was just really sensitive. We often used to do a lot of things together, because people were very interested in him and I think we felt safe together. Even when we did Brokeback and stuff, it was like my work was the only thing that mattered to me. It was like I could only understand or define myself through doing that. Life, I didn’t totally understand. And I think I was afraid of life. And I had success in my work, enough success that you could keep going back there. But after that happened…I think I recognized that it was work. And I recognized that this is for real.”
I hope the people who were outraged a few years ago about Jake not giving us a public show of grief will read that article.