BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Our BetterMost Community => BetterMost People => Topic started by: injest on April 27, 2008, 12:11:11 am
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If 75% have unnormal eating habits....doesnt that mean that normal is not so normal?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24295957/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24295957/)
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I'm thinking it's not a matter of "normal" it's just that the food easily obtainable these days is not satisfying being highly processed and is full of bad carbs, so we tend to eat more of it, and since women as a rule more easily gain weight and are less able to lose the weight once gained, women start trying to figure out what is going on and how to both eat to be healthy, to enjoy and not instantly gain weight.
I'm on a modified Atkins diet. It teaches you what foods have more fiber and less sugar than others. You think, hey this is a snap to go shopping for food now, then you start reading the labels off easy to prepare foods and realize the majority of foods on the shelves and the freezer section are full of sugars and highly processed carbs. There is almost nothing I can eat off the shelves that isn't full of sugar and bad carbs. I almost literally have to prepare all my foods from fresh produce and meats.
And for someone who doesn't like to cook, this is a pain in the ass. So yes, I have to think a lot more about food and what I am going to eat than is 'normal' because it is no longer a "no brainer" just to grab something to eat off the shelves or freezer section or in a restaurant.
And some of it I do attribute to social pressure for women to be thin and some of it depends on the women involved. Some women have addictive personalities and others are very "A-type" so why wouldn't some women also be overly obsessed with dieting and weight gain and exercise?
A friend of mine is "A type" and is very obese, she works out regularly, but doesn't watch what she eats and tortures herself by getting on a scale twice a week.
I am not "A type", I don't work out as much as I should, but I am careful about what I eat and still manage to lose weight, but haven't gotten on a scale in 3 years.
SELF magazine didn't say where the women in their study/poll came from.
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If 75% have unnormal eating habits....doesnt that mean that normal is not so normal?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24295957/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24295957/)
precisely, if 75% of a population is engaging in "abnormal" behavior, then the definition of "normal" needs rethinking.
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Our lives are very much out of balance. A punishingly thin body is the ideal, but average people are fatter than ever. Who can blame them? We're trapped in our cars, behind a computer, in front of a TV. And you're right about the most accessible food being, basically, poison.
I like to eat whole grains like barley or wheat berries for breakfast but it's so difficult to get and prepare them that it's been weeks since I've had a satisfying breakfast meal. I just skip breakfast or have a breakfast burrito or grits. I suppose that puts me in the Abby Normal category.
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precisely, if 75% of a population is engaging in "abnormal" behavior, then the definition of "normal" needs rethinking. :laugh:
According to MentalHelp.net at http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=11756&cn=46
The National Eating Disorders Association indicates that 5-20% of those who have untreated anorexia nervosa will not survive the disorder. The annual death rate for females between 15 and 24 years old from anorexia is 12 times higher than the annual death rate for all other causes combined. [bolding added] For those who receive treatment, the mortality rate is far lower, approximately 2-3% of these people will die from this disorder.
Real knee-slappin' material, no?
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The youngest daughter in a family that's been very good friends of my family for years and years has struggled with anorexia to the point where she's been hospitalized long-term for it on one occasion. At the moment she's doing quite well. But, when she's in a bad phase of anorexia it's one of the most terrifying things to witness. At her worst point she got down to skin and bones and had to be pushed in a wheelchair because she could not walk properly anymore (and she was in her early 20s at the time). I went and visited her at the rehab hospital (which specializes in eating disorders) and it was such an eye-opening and disturbing experience.
:(
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According to MentalHelp.net at http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=11756&cn=46
The National Eating Disorders Association indicates that 5-20% of those who have untreated anorexia nervosa will not survive the disorder. The annual death rate for females between 15 and 24 years old from anorexia is 12 times higher than the annual death rate for all other causes combined. [bolding added] For those who receive treatment, the mortality rate is far lower, approximately 2-3% of these people will die from this disorder.
Real knee-slappin' material, no?
then based upon what you link, and I thank you for the link, this is much more than a simple eating disorder epidemic, it is a mental health crisis. after looking at your material I saw my "laughing" smiley as inappropriate and have deleted it. Remember that sometimes people just may not be aware of the true dimensions of a particular subject and don't mean to be insensitive to a crisis.
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its quite scary isn't it?
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According to MentalHelp.net at http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=11756&cn=46
The National Eating Disorders Association indicates that 5-20% of those who have untreated anorexia nervosa will not survive the disorder. The annual death rate for females between 15 and 24 years old from anorexia is 12 times higher than the annual death rate for all other causes combined. [bolding added] For those who receive treatment, the mortality rate is far lower, approximately 2-3% of these people will die from this disorder.
Real knee-slappin' material, no?
I found the article amusing myself....I think eating disorders are a BIG problem for modern women but we wont' get anywhere by labeling EVERYTHING the same....Lee wanting to eat better does not mean she has the same disease as someone with bulimia.
We need to focus on the real problems instead of trying to exaggerate a problem that has no NEED to be exagerated.
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then based upon what you link, and I thank you for the link, this is much more than a simple eating disorder epidemic, it is a mental health crisis. after looking at your material I saw my "laughing" smiley as inappropriate and have deleted it. Remember that sometimes people just may not be aware of the true dimensions of a particular subject and don't mean to be insensitive to a crisis.
Thanks for your courteous answer. I probably over-reacted, as I've previously been in discussions (not on this forum) where people truly did treat the whole thing as a joke.
And I'm glad you referred to it as a mental health crisis; I'd add to that a statement that it's a mental health crisis created by contemporary society's obsession with thinness. That, plus the longstanding negative attitudes toward women's bodies that goes back a long way, has brewed up quite a potent cultural soup. There are varying theories about what in a family culture can trigger eating disorders, but there are two constants in every list I've seen: 1) a family with unrealistic expectations and persistent pressure on a kid to be "perfect" and 2) what John Bradshaw once called the "Saint Mom and Dad" syndrome; i.e., a fantasy that the family itself is perfect. Bad things happen to everyone else, but not to "us."
I strongly disagree with the recent trend toward calling an eating disorder a "disease." Most of the measurable changes in the brain and the rest of the body tend to be after the fact, suggesting that they're a consequence of the eating disorder rather than the cause of it. And the whole "disease" model tends to let both culture and family off the hook.
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I found the article amusing myself....
Yes, someone starving and puking themselves to death is truly hilarious.
As long as it's not you, of course. Or someone you care about, assuming that such a life form exists.
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Thanks for your courteous answer. I probably over-reacted, as I've previously been in discussions (not on this forum) where people truly did treat the whole thing as a joke.
And I'm glad you referred to it as a mental health crisis; I'd add to that a statement that it's a mental health crisis created by contemporary society's obsession with thinness. That, plus the longstanding negative attitudes toward women's bodies that goes back a long way, has brewed up quite a potent cultural soup. There are varying theories about what in a family culture can trigger eating disorders, but there are two constants in every list I've seen: 1) a family with unrealistic expectations and persistent pressure on a kid to be "perfect" and 2) what John Bradshaw once called the "Saint Mom and Dad" syndrome; i.e., a fantasy that the family itself is perfect. Bad things happen to everyone else, but not to "us."
I strongly disagree with the recent trend toward calling an eating disorder a "disease." Most of the measurable changes in the brain and the rest of the body tend to be after the fact, suggesting that they're a consequence of the eating disorder rather than the cause of it. And the whole "disease" model tends to let both culture and family off the hook.
I agree with you that there is a societal obsession over thinness. And this clerly affects women more than men, but men are also affected by weight obsessions. I keep myself at the doctors Rx weight for me, I have to at my age I can't afford to be overweight. But, there are men who are obsessed with body building and bulk form, this can also be very dangerous to the long term health of a man.
thanks for your courteous reply. :)
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Thanks for your courteous answer. I probably over-reacted, as I've previously been in discussions (not on this forum) where people truly did treat the whole thing as a joke.
And I'm glad you referred to it as a mental health crisis; I'd add to that a statement that it's a mental health crisis created by contemporary society's obsession with thinness. That, plus the longstanding negative attitudes toward women's bodies that goes back a long way, has brewed up quite a potent cultural soup. There are varying theories about what in a family culture can trigger eating disorders, but there are two constants in every list I've seen: 1) a family with unrealistic expectations and persistent pressure on a kid to be "perfect" and 2) what John Bradshaw once called the "Saint Mom and Dad" syndrome; i.e., a fantasy that the family itself is perfect. Bad things happen to everyone else, but not to "us."
I strongly disagree with the recent trend toward calling an eating disorder a "disease." Most of the measurable changes in the brain and the rest of the body tend to be after the fact, suggesting that they're a consequence of the eating disorder rather than the cause of it. And the whole "disease" model tends to let both culture and family off the hook.
Speaking as someone who was anorexic in her teens, at worst down to about 70lbs and hospitalised.I can categoricaly say that unrealistic expectations were part of the problem.My father was almost impossible to please.I came 1st in the year out of about 90 people spread over 3 classes.That was fine but ever after 2nd or 3rd which was my lowest was never good enough.It was just O.K but not 1st.
He also used to compare me with my mother,saying things like,well your very pretty,but obviously no where near as pretty as your mother was at your age.so as an insecure teenager the two combined had a terrible effect on me,not just anorexia but also cutting.I just never seemed to measure up in any aspect.My self esteem was in the minus figures.Particularly as mom had her darling, could do no wrong son.
You are also right in that to the outside world we were this perfect family.Nice hose and cars,talented bright kids.What a facade/farce.My brother finally used drugs as he could not cope with my moms perfect picture of him.He is well now thank god and has been for years,
But he lives in Japan and I live in the states,well away from our parents in the UK.
Things became further complicated by a bipolar diagnosis, and to this day,when things in my life are out of control,I will all too easily slip back into starvation mode.I use it as a reward system.Almost like look how well I can contol this.For every pound I lose I become more euphoric.
The only difference now is,I seem to have finally found meds which help. I would also hate to be any part in any of my kids ending up like this.Iam so careful to try and not have too unrealistic expectations of them.We never say diet in our house.If any of them feel they are not maybe as slim as they would like.It does happen sometimes.We just go on a more healthy eating plan.
I never say it is to lose weight,instead tell them we need more of certain food groups for tennis,gymnastics,wrestling whatever.So far they all have healthy body images.
I continually praise them and tell them how handsome,pretty etc they are.
If they get a bad grade (oldest son excepted) they are harder on themselves than I am.
But eating disorders should never be scoffeD at. Mine has afflicted me for 35 years to some degree or another.It is not a disease.It is a complex mental ealth issue,sometimes in isolationa and at sometimes in tandem with other things.It is a bit like alcoholism.You are never cured,you just learn to live,cope and control it for most of the time.
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But eating disorders should never be scoffeD at. Mine has afflicted me for 35 years to some degree or another.It is not a disease.It is a complex mental ealth issue,sometimes in isolation and at sometimes in tandem with other things.It is a bit like alcoholism.You are never cured,you just learn to live,cope and control it for most of the time.
I agree. Eating disorders I believe are psychological disorders that get combined with a feedback system the person creates within their own bodies. Optom mentioned the 'euphoria' she felt with each lb lost. Obviously the rest of us may enjoy losing a lb here and there, but euphoria hardly describes the feeling most of us get. So her extreme reaction has a lot more involved than just losing a lb.
And just as a quick aside not to take away from the discussion, I just read this the other day and it's made me do a lot of thinking recently on the particular subject of alcoholism because I hadn't heard this before:
American Medical Association
In 1980, the American Medical Association's Council on Scientific Affairs (now the Council on Science and Public Health) noted that "alcoholism is in and of itself a disabling and handicapping condition". Between 1980 and 1991, medical organizations, including the AMA, worked together to establish policies regarding their positions on the disease theory. These policies were developed in 1987 in part due to the fact that third-party reimbursement for treatment was difficult or impossible unless alcoholism were categorized as a disease. The policies of the AMA, formed through consensus of the federation of state and specialty medical societies within their House of Delegates, state, in part:
"The AMA endorses the proposition that drug dependencies, including alcoholism, are diseases and that their treatment is a legitimate part of medical practice."
In 1991, The AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections.
[edit] US Supreme Court
In a 1988 US Supreme Court decision on whether alcohol dependence is a condition for which the US Veterans Administration should provide benefits, Justice Byron R. White's statement echoed the District of Columbia Circuit's finding that there exists "a substantial body of medical literature that even contests the proposition that alcoholism is a disease, much less that it is a disease for which the victim bears no responsibility".[17] He also wrote:
"Indeed, even among many who consider alcoholism a "disease" to which its victims are genetically predisposed, the consumption of alcohol is not regarded as wholly involuntary."
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease...f%20alcoholism
What is described in the underlined part above is the medical community coming together to categorize alcoholism as a disease in order for people to receive benefits.
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Yes, someone starving and puking themselves to death is truly hilarious.
As long as it's not you, of course. Or someone you care about, assuming that such a life form exists.
so.....finding a badly written article amusing is equal to not caring about any life form?? I am not talking about Anorexia or Bulimia...I am talking about the ARTICLE...and how the statistics are presented...it is absurd to lump a woman that "THINKS" about what she is going to eat with someone with a serious eating disorder.
MY point was that if you are presenting statistics (about ANYTHING) then normal shouldn't be the lower number...if it is then your study is invalid as presented (IMO)
but you can be upset if you want to...It is always more fun to think the worst isnt' it?
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MY point was that if you are presenting statistics (about ANYTHING) then normal shouldn't be the lower number...if it is then your study is invalid as presented (IMO)
Oh, right. If a disorder is so widespread as to affect a large percentage of a population, we just laugh at it and ignore the consequences of the disorder.
Neat.
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I agree. Eating disorders I believe are psychological disorders that get combined with a feedback system the person creates within their own bodies. Optom mentioned the 'euphoria' she felt with each lb lost. Obviously the rest of us may enjoy losing a lb here and there, but euphoria hardly describes the feeling most of us get. So her extreme reaction has a lot more involved than just losing a lb.
I had an anorexia problem when I was 19, and that was in an era when eating disorders were practically unknown. I was lucky in that our family doctor recommended a specialist who did know what eating disorders were but for years after that my mother referred to the whole thing as my "crazy diet."
The feeling of euphoria -- yeah, I can still recall that, after almost 40 years. That's partly a response to the havoc that eating disorders can wreak with your hormones, but it also reflects the anger a lot of anorexics feel. The "never good enough" family dynamic, especially when middle-class families in particular tart it up as a compliment (e.g., "I know you can bring home a perfect report card; you're so smart!"), generates resentment that can build up over the years and surface in some rather unexpected places.
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Oh, right. If a disorder is so widespread as to affect a large percentage of a population, we just laugh at it and ignore the consequences of the disorder.
Neat.
ummm...nooooo...you are such an intelligent woman, I dont' think you can not understand my meaning.
I reject your characterizations of the whole purpose of this thread.
I would think that if you are so invested in this issue you would be the first to object to it being lumped together...or are YOU saying that bulimia is equal to casual dieting? I don't. I think that people with bulimia have a serious problem....people that are casually dieting are not killing themselves (we all 'diet' to some extent) So to tie them together, (IMO) diminshes the reality of anorexia and its toll on its victims.
(and I STILL think it is amusing that the statistics are twisted around to make EVERYONE sick....)
:) :)
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If 75% have unnormal eating habits....doesnt that mean that normal is not so normal?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24295957/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24295957/)
The online SELF survey garnered responses from 4,000 women ages 25 to 45 to a detailed questionnaire about their eating habits and found that most disordered eaters fall into one or more of six categories. "Calorie prisoners" are terrified of gaining weight, tend to see food as good or bad and feel extremely guilty if they indulge in something that’s off-limits. Secret eaters binge on junk food at home, in the car — wherever they won’t be found out. Career dieters may not know what to eat without a plan to follow; despite their efforts, they’re more likely than other types to be overweight or obese. Purgers are obsessed with ridding their body of unwanted calories and bloat by using laxatives, diuretics or occasional vomiting. Food addicts eat to soothe stress, deal with anger, even celebrate a happy event; they think about food nearly all the time. Extreme exercisers work out despite illness, injury or exhaustion and solely for weight loss; they are devastated if they miss a session. Like Marsh, who Bulik describes as a calorie prisoner and an exercise addict, many disordered eaters piece together a painful mix of destructive habits. Others may shift between categories over the years, ricocheting from restricting to bingeing to purging, for instance.
ok what in here says ANYTHING about bulimia or anorexia??
is it ABNORMAL to think some foods are good or bad? are we not TAUGHT that there are foods that are good for us and food that is bad? this is NOT a eating disorder....this is healthy eating.
Is eating junk food abnormal? I would think the number with 'eating disorders' is much higher then...I dont' know of ANYONE that doesnt' sneak a cookie now and again
and yes we eat to celebrate...so if you go out to dinner for your anniversary you have an eating disorder JUST LIKE bulimics??
I don't think so.
I think the whole article and study is another in a long line of articles that are set up to make us feel bad about ourselves...alarmist crap. Read closer and you see that the TRUE eating disorders are only 10%. You can't say something is abnormal if the majority is doing it. Labeling does not make it so.
(and again...it has NOTHING to do with real eating disorders!)