Thanks, Katie, Artiste, and optom. You guys are great and I agree about the emotion of this movie. It had me crying a bunch of times and I'm a very sensitive girl.
The love scene between the two of them was a huge turn on EVERYTIME I see it. Of course. I was a bit shocked, startled, and uncomfortable at first, too. But, when I'd seen the second to third to fourth etc. times, I became used to it and really loved the scene. It would always 'GET' to me, even no matter how hard I try not to let it arouse me. Doesn't work. :laugh: It was to make us the audience see where their passions began physically. The sexual tension had finally broke when Jack had first put Ennis's hand on him. The way I see it, he WANTED Ennis's touch badly. He was emotionally, mentally, and sexually attracted to him. He wanted to send a message to him that he was in love with him and that he was highly sexually pining for him that he couldn't take it anymore. And Ennis was a virgin at the time so he didn't know how to react to it. Jack on the other, it was a bit unclear if he was a virgin or not but he definitely felt comfortable and hungrily ready to feel what it's like to make love to Ennis or the other way around. ;D
Plus, I think the scene was also a hidden meaning that Ennis and Jack in a way were telling eachother that they each are gay and they're sexually attracted to eachother by their actions(i.e. the hand on the crotch under the blanket, the holding eachother faces, the increasing breathing between them before and during, etc.).
And I agree with you about the Second Tent Scene. I find that scene very cute, emotionally, and sweet. I mean, Jack being gentle and affectionate towards Ennis was just beautiful. And when he kissed him, it was not only hot but also sweet. It was warm and loving. It was almost as if WE as the viewers 'felt' the first kiss he gave him. It was beautifully done by two great actors. You know, everytime I look at that scene, I wonder how Heath and Jake got their nerves together to actually kiss eachother. I know they had to really talk this out but after a while, they probably had gotten use to it. I've seen them deliciously kiss women but kissing eachother really took the cake. ;) It was beyond peaches and cream. It was beyond sweet. Let me put it at that. :D
But, yeah, on that part of the scene, it showed how they're characters are starting to feel and accept the love from eachother. :)
Personally, I think both the 1st Tent Scene and the 2nd Tent Scene are two of the best scenes from the movie.
I don't know whether it is different for men, but I have shared passionate kisses with a couple of women. I then fell desperately in love with the love of my life.Kissing him was not so different from kissing a woman.Some people can kiss well and some just can't.Agreed. Yeah, I remember Heath saying that, too. He said it like it was nothing to be ashamed of. I respect that. I wasn't annoyed by it at all. And I agree. Kissing a man or woman in a way doesn't make any difference. We're human beings.
Heath in one interview said basically it is just kissing another human being,I thought that was a pretty mature attitude.
For me kissing a woman was a natural progression from the very deep friendship bond we had formed. There was no embarrassment attached, quite the reverse, it seemed the most natural thing in the world.
I suspect for Heath and Jake , with all the cameras etc around it was probably not much more difficult than a straight kiss or sex scene. I do know I was utterly convinced by their desperate sexual attraction and love for each other. That in itself is an amazing feat for 2 straight man.In fact I only ever see Ennis and Jack.
O
Brokeback released me to live!
TampaTalon ^">
I guess those words say it all Tampa, and not only for people of the gay community, but I think it released a lot of us, from some kind of "closet".
So females have different closets too ?
Is that one reason why females relate to Ennis and Jack??
May I ask ?
Au revoir,
hugs!
I have found this thread very enlightening with the views profiled here.
From my view as a gay male I remember being absolutely shocked at the
FNIT scene in a Tampa theatre that night. I did not know much about BBM
before I went but I knew I must see it. The sexual act of course did not shock me
and flowed very naturally but as soon as it was over I was startled. As I sat in the
theatre in the moment it was over you could hear a pin drop. Stunned I did not
believe I just saw such a private moment between the boys and felt like I had
stumbled into it, like walking in on your parents. I looked around and the audience
seemed to try to adjust themselves as well as I did back to normal. Or should I
use the world normal? After Brokeback life changed and never went back to what
was normal. Thanks to the boys and Brokeback. I never have to try to be the "old"
normal again.
Brokeback released me to live!
TampaTalon ^">
I just realized something...and it is so surprizing to me to have an epiphany about this movie after all this time, and after so many viewings. For a long time I have expressed my surprise (and chagrin) that my SON and I share the same taste in men, dark, affectionate, self confident, tall, good sense of humor, etc...
I just realized that in the FNIT, Jack imitates what my husband does when he wants to have sex.....when I am asleep or drifting off and he wants to 'test the water' he will send one hand over as a scout to see if I will welcome or reject it...Jack takes Ennis's hand and pulls it over to 'test the water'!!
It is another thing that reminds me (as if I need it) that gays and straights aren't that different after all. not really, not down deep where it matters.
Getting back to all of us... I have to say that it really angers me how women are on some level denied sexual recreation and release. A reply to that might be, "Denied? How, exactly?" And I can't specifically put my finger on a particular rule or whatever, but I hope you all know what I'm trying to say. I mean, how many movies featuring lesbian lovemaking have been made for the entertainment of straight males? Now how many movies featuring man-on-man have been made for us? (Or any kind of sex, for that matter.) It's just assumed that every guy from the age of 11 will be coming his brains out — zillions of times over his lifetime — and entire industries are devoted to helping entertain him along his way. But us?
Yes, there is erotica for women, but how much by comparison? And how recently was that little cottage industry allowed to come out of its own closet?
I think that is part of the core of my empathy with Ennis and Jack. Straight women have more in common with them than we might realize.
Gabreya, thank you for starting this one. Reading it now for the first time, it seems a lot of folks have something to get off their chests, so to speak, about these scenes.
To try to stay on topic, I, as a mostly-straight (I've kissed a couple girls myself, Fiona:), and it was lovely) woman, was gigantically turned on by both sex scenes. Number 1, helllllooooo, it was Heath and Jake, for goodness' sake, and number 2, it was finally the culmination of what we, as viewers, knew would be the outcome (no pun intended, sorry), but that they, as Ennis and Jack, weren't sure would actually happen. So the intrigue and mystery and waiting only added to the excitement of that first night. Honestly, I didn't think it would be as quick as it was, but I'm guessing that's something the censors controlled, rather than truly reflecting reality between two men. But then again, I've never in real life, seen two men making love for the first time, so what do I know?
I think everyone has certain sexual preferences, for lots of reasons. Maybe based on what they've seen in the movies as they were growing up, or seen in real life, or something a lover turned them on to, or any number of other things. I've never in my life judged two people who wanted to be together. And if there's love involved, as opposed to just like or lust, then all the better.
It is unfortunate for men in this society, that they don't get the approval and/or opportunity, to express their affection or sadness or other emotions with men. But women get to, without a second glance. This has always bothered me, that old pat-two-or-three-times-hard-on-the-back hug thing that men do. I think that's part of why I like BBM so much. Ennis and Jack, they never did that. Every time, it was either all or nothing between them, and when I say that, I mean, it started as a look, several looks actually, and a handshake. Every reunion thereafter, including their final moments together (ouch!), was marked with the most giant of hugs and happiness and love oozing out of both of them. I think they set an example that all men should see. It's okay to express your emotions, not just to the women in your life, but to every person in your life.
And I agree with another thing on this thread. Whenever I had a nightmare as a child and as a teenager back in the 80's, which was a lot, there was never a second's hesitation in crawling into bed between my mom and dad, and being comforted by both of them, back to slumber. Was a simpler time then, I guess. Sad to say. I know I couldn't have made it through a lot of nights, without them there to assure me there'd be better dreams to come. Some nights now, when I can't sleep, I drive over to my mom and dad's empty house, and crawl into that bed, somewhere in the crack, between the two pillows, where all my nightmares stopped...
So to see Ennis and Jack hug so violently at the reunion scene,crushing to each other as if they are trying to crawl under the others skin is a refreshing change.Most of us know, what it feels like to hug someone so hard you never want to let them go.It is as if by so doing you can literally imprint their body onto yours.
Fiona, I really love the way you worded that -- "imprint their body onto yours". It's funny, I've had lots of discussions with men about hugs. Did you know that most men actually have separate types of hugs for different types of people? I had never known this before, but got into a discussion several years ago with a couple straight male friends, and one of them started talking, and the other one, I could see from his eyes, knew exactly what the first guy was talking about. And these were two gorgeous, sexy guys. I wish I would have had a recorder of some kind, cause I don't remember exactly every type of hug they described. There are, apparently, hugs where you slap a man on the back, hugs where you tap a woman on the back, hugs where you rub a woman on the back, hugs where you almost touch pelvises with a woman, hugs where you press your pelvis against a woman, hugs where you sidle up next to and tease a woman, hugs where you have an erection accidentally and don't touch pelvises cause you don't want her to notice, hugs where you want to get away quickly, hugs where you want to stay forever, the list just went on and on. And guys, some guys at least, apparently have all these different kinds of hugs established in their protocol. Like I said, I'd never though much about hugs before, I've always been a big hugger. But ever after that conversation, I think about every hug I give and what it might be saying to the other person. To me, hugs are instinctual at the moment they happen. But I found it hilarious that men might be thinking about it differently.
You made me laugh too, Fiona. THAT is exactly what they do, I swear to you. After that conversation with those guys, I would ask every new guy friend I meet, and they would all concur. ASK your husband, and tell him to be honest. I don't know ANY girls/women that do this, but men seem to think a hug is one of the most important analytical events in history. It's ridiculous!
Just pay attention from now on. You'll find it fascinating.
And, that reminds me, to think now how many hugs there are in those Love Scenes, between Ennis and Jack?
I wonder what was going through Ennis and Jack's minds when they first made love. I know they were, or at least Ennis, was a bit scared.
:laugh:....Most probably what goes thru the minds of most people making love for the first time......
Merci Gabreya!
I agree with you about those caresses!
Where, in which scenes, you think that could have been done too ?
Au revoir,
hugs!
Artiste, we miss you! Where ya been, Artiste??? You've been away for 10 whole days!!!
:laugh:....Most probably what goes thru the minds of most people making love for the first time......
It depends whether passion overtakes and it is "real" love in which case you think of nothing bar the moment.If it is just sex, the my mind goes along the lines of,which way covers most of my stretch marks, how can I stop my bust slipping sideways, and God I wish it was darker !!!!!
And...........Oh, I hope I dont get a cramp in my bloody leg........ ::);D
;D
;D ;D
Not forgetting,hope he's not one of those Sting, tantric type, I can go for hours, Oh pleeeeease no. !!
;D
;D ;D
Not forgetting,hope he's not one of those Sting, tantric type, I can go for hours, Oh pleeeeease no. !!
Should have Lee directed a female to come in those tent scenes between Ennis and Jack?
May I dare ask...
au revoir,
hugs!
Why NO ?
Congratulations Katie, that is a funny post you did!
However, females were NOT in Annie's sotry, right?
So, I wonder if it did occur to Lee to direct by placing a female into those tent scenes !!
As somehow, when Ennis's wife looks secretly at her husband kissing Jack, that is like her being in a tent scene ?
Sure, Ennis's wife was surprised, shocked, but also didn't she continue to look at both embrasing and/or kissing??