I think Jack hid the shirts without telling his Mom, or anybody. He certainly never told Ennis. No doubt his Mom discovered them and came to understand their significance at some point. Presumably, Jack would visit his parents after his time with Ennis, his "Fishing Buddy" once or twice a year. We know he mentioned Ennis to them over the years and I think she connected the dots. She was probably puzzled as to why her son would layer two bloodied shirts in that way and tuck them away discreetly in the back of his closet. She would know they have a special meaning to him, but what? I don't think it would have taken her too long to figure it out. A mother knows.
Also, it is clear during Ennis's visit that she knows who Ennis is and what he meant to Jack. She loves him because her son loved him. She loves him because he was the One who loved her son. I think they acknowledge each other as they put the shirts in the paper bag. Ennis came out to her.
I think Jack hid the shirts without telling his Mom, or anybody. He certainly never told Ennis. No doubt his Mom discovered them and came to understand their significance at some point. Presumably, Jack would visit his parents after his time with Ennis, his "Fishing Buddy" once or twice a year. We know he mentioned Ennis to them over the years and I think she connected the dots. She was probably puzzled as to why her son would layer two bloodied shirts in that way and tuck them away discreetly in the back of his closet. She would know they have a special meaning to him, but what? I don't think it would have taken her too long to figure it out. A mother knows.
Also, it is clear during Ennis's visit that she knows who Ennis is and what he meant to Jack. She loves him because her son loved him. She loves him because he was the One who loved her son. I think they acknowledge each other as they put the shirts in the paper bag ]Ennis came out to her.
I was always fascinated by the stark difference between Jack's folks. Here is maybe the first time Ennis drives so far to go visit someone, and what he is greeted by is a warm, patient, understanding, seemingly all-knowing and kind woman, and a cold-as-ice, angry, spiteful, inconsiderate shell of a man. I cannot imagine how shocked he would have been when he sat down at that table. Those two actors were spectacular in their brief performances.
To get back to topic, I think Jack left those shirts there like that, in the back of his closet, wanting his mother to find them. We never hear him say one harsh word about his mother, although we all know what he thought of his dad -- "never taught me a thing, never once came to see me ride", "can't please my old man no way", etc. So we know that he loves his mom and appreciates her all his life. But I wouldn't presume that a western, out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere farm wife during the 60's and 70's would have heard a whole lot about homosexuality, though. Which makes me question if she really, truly knew that Ennis was Jack's lover, or if she just thought that he was just his great, close friend all those years?
The love Jacks mother has for him is so plain to see, it is almost too painful to watch.She instantly knows what Ennis has in his hands.No words necessary, just a look and the bag.
How ironic that we first see Ennis with a bag in hand containing pretty much all he has in the world.He has it all before him.Closed and as yet not experienced in love.Then full circle, Ennis with a bag, but this time it contains all that was important to him, all that is left of Jack and his life.
From one brown bag to another, but OMG what a journey between the two.The first bag symbolically is a reference to the lack of worldly goods, Ennis has.The second bag, still has no worldly goods, but it is now filled with love. Very sad.He clutches both of them tightly.
The first, not that he knows it, is a portent of all that is before him,the second, all that is behind him.
Well that's me completely in bits again.
Fiona, once again, you've given me goosebumps with your words and perceptions. How do you do that to me so easily??? You really ought to write a book or something; I'd be first in line to buy it ;)
There are some parts of BBM that no one could possibly sway my opinion on, and then there are parts like the scene with the shirts, where I've always waffled and wondered what it really meant. I think it was huge that that was the first scene where the camera pans to the perspective of the object Ennis is about to find, looking out at Ennis, rather than honing in on the actors/action. I knew right then that there was going to be a gigantic revelation. And the more I read yours and other's words on this thread, I'm more convinced that that revelation came of how much Ennis was loved, and Jack was loved in return, comes full-circle, finally after 20 years, in the span of about two minutes. Next time I watch it this week, I'll think of that scene from your eyes, thank you.
On a sidebar, I've read a lot of stuff about mother's intuitions and their innate protectiveness of their children. Not being a mom, I wouldn't know. Watching my poor mom being shuttled between the nursing home and the hospital lately, dying of 6 kinds of cancer -- I wish I could ask her what she knew about me that I never spoke out loud. But maybe it's best I don't know, cause I haven't exactly been the least naughty of girls in my life. Perhaps I should just let her rest, never knowing for sure....
I am sure she did. I know I have found things in my son's room that are obviously private....you have to respect that privacy. Denial is a form of protection sometimes. Covers for things you can't/shouldn't talk about.
But she would have put two and two together..the shirts appeared after that summer. Ennis also appeared, in her son's conversation. I can't imagine Jack would have ever said a word bad about Ennis...so "like the horse thief that can't help flashing a glimpse of the bridle" his tone, his demeanor would have given him away to his mother.
agreed, I don't think that its any more complicated than that. Jack probably left the shirts in OMT's house, and his mother inquired about them, and she figured out that they had a deep significance that should be respected. Did Jack keep them hanging in the closet all of those years? Maybe not, maybe he kept them in a drawer. Hanging on a nail for 20 years, and the shirts would have deteriorated, as unwashed cloth will do over time.
Okay, Fiona, you're officially freaking me out now. I was just discussing today with my new boyfriend as of Saturday, who's loved me and waited patiently for me for almost 6 years now, about scent. I wear something called Little Black Dress, it's from Avon, discontinued, but thank goodness to E-Bay, I'm stocked for life with shower gel, lotion, perfume, powder, everything. It's the finest smell I've ever smelled, and completely indicative of me. I'm not a big fan of scent on a person unless it really, really suits them. And this one does, me. Anyway, I emailed my boyfriend earlier today to ask if he'd liked it on me Saturday and Sunday, and his answer was:
Stop worrying about what *I* like...if you like it,
that's good enough for me.
But, yes, I did like it.
He's a good man. It's about time I let myself be in love again. Anyway, I just thought it was a very weird coincidence at midnight my time, 1 am yours, that you changed the topic to scent, and how personal it is.
That's all. G'night.
Also, it is clear during Ennis's visit that she knows who Ennis is and what he meant to Jack. She loves him because her son loved him. She loves him because he was the One who loved her son. I think they acknowledge each other as they put the shirts in the paper bag. Ennis came out to her.
Yes, you should start a new thread about that. We can talk about all the scents that Jack and Ennis would have smelled during their times together, as well as other Brokies' associations with certain scents. I truly believe it's the most important of the senses that draws people together or pushes them apart. Will you put the thread under your Rantings or somewhere else, so I know where to find it and add my thoughts?
IMO, Ennis finding the shirts is one of the greatest moments in literary and film history.
Marie
I also adore the haunting music that underscores this moment. For a brief while on the IMDB board there was a youtube clip that showed an extended take of this scene, not sure why we weren't treated to it in the final cut but who am I to question Mr Lee!
I would love ot see that.
I would love ot see that.
:-*
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK-Fd_oxVsE[/youtube]
Hmmm...the shirts...personally I don't think Mrs Twist knew about the shirts from the start. I don't think Jack told her. Whether she figured it out later after finding them and asked Jack about them, or whether she only found them after Jack's death and remembering how Jack talked about Ennis (we know from OMT that Jack did mention Ennis to his parents and told them of his plans to take Ennis to the ranch and for the two of them to run the place) figured it out. I've nothing really to base that view on - no evidence, but even if Jack had a good relationship with his mother, I don't think he'd have come right out and told her about the shirts. The shirts were something that was very personal to him, and they were hidden way back in the back of the closet there for a reason. Rummaging about in closets isn't really the sort of thing you'd expect fathers to do, so putting them anywhere in the closet I guess they'd be reasonably safe from OMT, but tidying closets and stuff is the sort of thing mothers do, which is why I think they were hidden way back at the back of the closet, and why I think Mrs Twist found them accidently.
Jack's relationship with his mother's an interesting one though, because though we're given a few clues about his relationship with his father, both in what Jack tells Ennis about him and what OMT himself tells Ennis about things Jack has said, we're given very little to go on as far as his relationship with his mother goes. Practically all we know about Jack's relationship with his mother is that she never explained to him what the Pentecost is. It interests me what sort of a relationship Jack had with her though. Did he talk openly to her? Did he tell her about Ennis? Were they close? Did he stay in contact with her when he was away rodeoing and when he moved to Texas?
maybe she didnt' tell him about the Pentecost because she knew about him (at some level) and couldnt' reconcile the love of her child with the 'you are going to hell' of her religion so she tried to compartmentalize them..keep them apart.
My mother bought my husband an aftershave a few years ago, that for me can only be worn by one person. I nearly freaked when I saw the bottle.It was just wrong.I had to bite my tongue,and wait for it to be empty.
That's an interesting idea. I've often thought before that it's very telling that Jack tells Ennis about his understanding of what the Pentecost is and then there's the line about "fellas like you and me marchin' off to hell", but I never really got beyond that and considered why his mother didn't tell him about the Pentecost. From the little Jack says about her and a couple of things from the scene at the ranch with Jack's parents after his death it's obvious she's a very religious lady, and yet as you say, it seems strange that she didn't tell Jack about the Penecost.
As far as Jack's relationship with Ennis is concerned, I can't imagine a woman of that generation and background actively or consciously approving of it. However, the idea of Jack being back on the ranch permanently and working with a 'friend', however she wanted to think about it, to get the ranch back in shape might well have been a dream of her own. As a species, we seem to be set up to reconcile contradictory beliefs very efficiently when the motive is strong enough.
Hey Marge, I love the way you worded that sentiment. My immediate reaction when watching that scene was that Jack's mom DID understand what had gone on between the two men. But then the more I thought about her religious nature, I questioned that reaction. I've always been confused about this scene. I'd like to believe that she knew and was understanding, even in opposition to OMT's NOT understanding. It seems set up that way, by Ang's camera angles of the two, directly in opposition to each other -- one in the background, and the better one, i.e., Mrs. Twist, in the foreground, semi-shaking her head, as if to say, "don't pay him no never-mind".
I don't know much about religion, never been to church in my life, hardly read any of the Bible, and don't have the first clue what the Pentecost was. Maybe we should analyze more why Jack presumed to tell Ennis what he *thought* the Pentecost was, rather than admitting fully that he didn't have a clue? And why would he be singing that song around the campfire, when he surely must have known a whole lot of non-religious songs???? Hmmmm, this has got me thinking now in a whole new direction. He could have sang "get a long, little doggie" or any other campfire tune. Why did he choose "I know I'll meet you on that final day. Water-walking Jesus, take me away."? Should we have seen this as foreshadowing?
Why did he choose "I know I'll meet you on that final day. Water-walking Jesus, take me away."? Should we have seen this as foreshadowing?
Hey Marge, I love the way you worded that sentiment. My immediate reaction when watching that scene was that Jack's mom DID understand what had gone on between the two men. But then the more I thought about her religious nature, I questioned that reaction. I've always been confused about this scene. I'd like to believe that she knew and was understanding, even in opposition to OMT's NOT understanding. It seems set up that way, by Ang's camera angles of the two, directly in opposition to each other -- one in the background, and the better one, i.e., Mrs. Twist, in the foreground, semi-shaking her head, as if to say, "don't pay him no never-mind".
I don't know much about religion, never been to church in my life, hardly read any of the Bible, and don't have the first clue what the Pentecost was. Maybe we should analyze more why Jack presumed to tell Ennis what he *thought* the Pentecost was, rather than admitting fully that he didn't have a clue? And why would he be singing that song around the campfire, when he surely must have known a whole lot of non-religious songs???? Hmmmm, this has got me thinking now in a whole new direction. He could have sang "get a long, little doggie" or any other campfire tune. Why did he choose "I know I'll meet you on that final day. Water-walking Jesus, take me away."? Should we have seen this as foreshadowing?
I had never really given Jack's choce of song much thought before.In the s.s Ennis also sings a song called "strawberry roan" which is presumably about a horse.We know from later in the story that horses are one of the few things that Ennis feels any empathy with, as in the reunion scene, he says "little darlin" to Jack, an endearment he keeps solely for his horses and daughters.
Specifically referring to the s.s here,does the choice of song by Ennis reveal, (comming as it does after the paw the white out of the moon section,) that even if it is only at a subconcious level, he is starting to fall in love with Jack?
The choice of song by Jack could have a few meanings I think.Maybe as it refers to water walking Jesus, Jack is hoping for some miracle for himself,to bring Ennis to him.It could also be a portent of things to come.As with Ennis it could be his subconcious, connecting his mother, who I think he loved,and sung the hymn to him, with Ennis who he has started to fall in love with.
So many permutations possible with just 2 songs. The romantic in me, likes to think, that in the s.s the choice of music by the two is a further indication that they are being drawn more and more to each other, at some very deep level. It cannot be coincidence that it is that night where they first come together.
I honestly can't think of any combination of more clever people -- writer, screenwriter, director, actors -- to come together to make a film....I think Annie, Diana, Larry, Ang, Heath, and Jake, not to mention the rest of the cast, were all on exactly the same wavelength, and I think that's one of the most important reasons that this movie resonates in all of us Brokies years and years later, and probably forever.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2500872693_b303fe3f81_o.jpg)I´d never thought about that before. Amazing. Thanks Laura
I love how her outfit matches J+E's shirts (solid blue over a plaid shirt), almost as if she's trying to give Ennis a clue.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2500872693_b303fe3f81_o.jpg)Incredible observation friend!
I love how her outfit matches J+E's shirts (solid blue over a plaid shirt), almost as if she's trying to give Ennis a clue.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2500872693_b303fe3f81_o.jpg)
I love how her outfit matches J+E's shirts (solid blue over a plaid shirt), almost as if she's trying to give Ennis a clue.
It is like she was identifying with them by wearing the two shirts, like she has seen them and she is sending Ennis a signal without her husband knowing anything.
I´m wondering if you think that Ennis called ahead, letting them know he was coming. Would it have been considered rude to just show up?
I remember the photo taken of all the Brokies at my house, immediately after watching BBM, still shell shocked after all this time.
The exact reason why I captured that moment, Fi. Was priceless, the look on all your faces, and if I hadn't been the hostess with the mostest trying to keep it all together, I'd have been right there, bawling my eyes out, curled up together, with you.
I love how her outfit matches J+E's shirts (solid blue over a plaid shirt), almost as if she's trying to give Ennis a clue.
Amanda- I totally missed the blue and tan jackets hanging up in Aguirre's trailer. Thanks for the pic. No matter how many times I have watched the movie, it still amazes me when new things are discovered.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2500872693_b303fe3f81_o.jpg)