BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Our BetterMost Community => BetterMost People => Topic started by: delalluvia on September 05, 2008, 06:46:32 pm
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For anyone, but women in particular.
A friend of mine e-mailed me this. The "Night of Terror" is true.
This is not a joke—in fact, I checked it all out and am ordering the movie from Amazon...the struggle for the right to vote has happened and is happening for women in many countries...
A Message for all women
THIS IS MOVING. HOW QUICKLY WE FORGET.....IF ....WE EVER KNEW......
WHY WOMEN SHOULD VOTE
This is the story of our Grandmothers and Great-grandmothers; they lived only 90 years ago.
Remember, it was not until 1920
that women were granted the right to go to the polls and vote.
The women were innocent and defenseless merely gathering publicly in a group, but they were jailed
nonetheless for picketing the White House, carrying signs asking
for the vote.
And by the end of the night, they were barely alive.
Forty prison guards wielding clubs and their warden's blessing
went on a rampage against the 33 women wrongly convicted of
'obstructing sidewalk traffic.'
They beat Lucy Burns, chained her hands to the cell bars above
her head and left her hanging for the night, bleeding and gasping
for air.
They hurled Dora Lewis into a dark cell, smashed her
head against an iron bed and knocked her out cold. Her cellmate,
Alice Cosu, thought Lewis was dead and suffered a heart attack.
Additional affidavits describe the guards grabbing, dragging,
beating, choking, slamming, pinching, twisting and kicking the women.
Thus unfolded the 'Night of Terror' on Nov. 15, 1917,
when the warden at the Occoquan Workhouse in Virginia ordered his
guards to teach a lesson to the suffragists imprisoned there because
they dared to picket Woodrow Wilson's White House for the right
to vote.
For weeks, the women's only water came from an open pail. Their
food--all of it colorless slop--was infested with worms.
When one of the leaders, Alice Paul, embarked on a hunger strike, they tied her to a chair, forced a tube down her throat and poured liquid into her until she vomited. She was tortured like this for weeks
until word was smuggled out to the press.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/suffrage/nwp/prisoners.pdf
So, refresh my memory. Some women won't vote this year because-
-why, exactly? We have carpool duties? We have to get to work?
Our vote doesn't matter? It's raining?
Last week, I went to a sparsely attended screening of HBO's new
movie 'Iron Jawed Angels.' It is a graphic depiction of the battle
these women waged so that I could pull the curtain at the polling
booth and have my say. I am ashamed to say I needed the reminder.
My friend...saw the HBO movie, too. When she stopped by my desk to talk
about it, she looked angry. She was--with herself. 'One thought
kept coming back to me as I watched that movie,' she said.
'What would those women think of the way I use, or don't use,
my right to vote? All of us take it for granted now, not just
younger women, but those of us who did seek to learn.' The
right to vote, she said, had become valuable to her 'all over again.'
HBO released the movie on video and DVD . I wish all history,
social studies and government teachers would include the movie in
their curriculum. I want it shown...anywhere
else women gather. I realize this isn't our usual idea of socializing,
but we are not voting in the numbers that we should be, and I think
a little shock therapy is in order.
It is jarring to watch Woodrow Wilson and his cronies try to persuade a psychiatrist to declare Alice Paul insane so that she could be permanently institutionalized. And it is inspiring to watch the doctor refuse. Alice Paul was strong, he said, and brave. That didn't make her crazy.
The doctor admonished the men: 'Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity.'
Please, if you are so inclined, pass this on to all the women you know.
We need to get out and vote and use this right that was fought so
hard for by these very courageous women. Whether you vote democratic, republican or independent party - remember to vote.
History is being made.
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*nods head*
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and yet we attack a woman that is running for the second highest office in the country based on rumors from blogs. We use the language of the oppressors..."she can't be vice president, she has kids."
How hypocritical. We ask for our rights then try to deny other women theirs.
On one forum we trash a woman for no other reason then she has a different set of beliefs then us and then come on another and cry about women that were tortured a hundred years ago. And we don't see the irony.
of course I am not intelligent enough to understand all this stuff. We really need to change the laws so people like me don't be voting, only people that are at least as smart as Thomas Jefferson should be allowed to vote.
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and yet we attack a woman that is running for the second highest office in the country based on rumors from blogs. We use the language of the oppressors..."she can't be vice president, she has kids."
You read all kinds of things on blogs. You need to take them with a grain of salt. Don't forget Hillary Rodham having to change her name to Hillary Clinton and claiming she really liked to stay at home and bake cookies to please the conservatives. ::) That wasn't some blogger. That was reality.
How hypocritical. We ask for our rights then try to deny other women theirs.
Yep, hypocrisy is exactly what it is. And yes Palin wants to deny other women their rights. It's hypocritical of the conservatives to be howling now even though they did the same thing to Hillary Clinton. We haven't forgotten.
On one forum we trash a woman for no other reason then she has a different set of beliefs then us and then come on another and cry about women that were tortured a hundred years ago. And we don't see the irony.
The suffragettes wanted to pass along the right to vote to EVERY woman. Palin's beliefs are fine - for her. Not every woman shares her beliefs, yet she wants to make it so that we have no other choice. Yes, there's an irony there that some people aren't seeing.
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You read all kinds of things on blogs. You need to take them with a grain of salt. Don't forget Hillary Rodham having to change her name to Hillary Clinton and claiming she really liked to stay at home and bake cookies to please the conservatives. ::) That wasn't some blogger. That was reality.
yet we are happy to present them as facts and run with them
Yep, hypocrisy is exactly what it is. And yes Palin wants to deny other women their rights. It's hypocritical of the conservatives to be howling now even though they did the same thing to Hillary Clinton. We haven't forgotten.
nor have we forgotten how Clinton was treated by the liberal leaders too. We WON'T forget that either.
The suffragettes wanted to pass along the right to vote to EVERY woman. Palin's beliefs are fine - for her. Not every woman shares her beliefs, yet she wants to make it so that we have no other choice. Yes, there's an irony there that some people aren't seeing.
at least we agree there is irony here.
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yet we are happy to present them as facts and run with them
And this is different from normal politics - how?
nor have we forgotten how Clinton was treated by the liberal leaders too. We WON'T forget that either.
The conservatives were hypercritical of Hillary because she was a career woman and mother. Wanted to force her to take her man's name and admit she really wanted to be in the kitchen. And now conservatives want us to believe they're all about 'women's choices' and anyone who doesn't support their candidate is a 'hypocrite'?
Er, yeah.
at least we agree there is irony here.
Oh, plenty of it and from both sides. I get to read how Obama 'posed in front of his Caesar classical pillars and curtain' yet they don't mention Dubya doing the same thing years earlier. I get to read about how liberals are now 'hypocritical' because they're condemning a woman 'who made a choice' while completely ignoring the fact that the reason liberals condemn her is because she is ANTI-choice, not because of *her* particular choice. This was from my neo-conservative friends and they didn't see the difference. Liberals get to hear - yet again - that because they don't support a POW, they're unpatriotic. A 'family/traditional/abstinence only' candidate has an OOPS in the family with a knocked up 16 year old daughter which shows all too clearly the failure of her way of doing things, but she, her party and Obama all say her family is 'off-limits' to discussion. What they mean is 'off limits to criticism'. So they can parade their family on stage and in front of cameras to be flashed around the world - but, "uh uh uh, you can only say GOOD things about them".
You don't want bad things said about their family in public/in blogs? Get them off the stage. Sheesh.
Yep, plenty of irony and hypocrisy and special treatment to go around.
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And this is different from normal politics - how?
The conservatives were hypercritical of Hillary because she was a career woman and mother. Wanted to force her to take her man's name and admit she really wanted to be in the kitchen. And now conservatives want us to believe they're all about 'women's choices' and anyone who doesn't support their candidate is a 'hypocrite'?
Er, yeah.
Oh, plenty of it and from both sides. I get to read how Obama 'posed in front of his Caesar classical pillars and curtain' yet they don't mention Dubya doing the same thing years earlier. I get to read about how liberals are now 'hypocritical' because they're condemning a woman 'who made a choice' while completely ignoring the fact that the reason liberals condemn her is because she is ANTI-choice, not because of *her* particular choice. This was from my neo-conservative friends and they didn't see the difference. Liberals get to hear - yet again - that because they don't support a POW, they're unpatriotic. A 'family/traditional/abstinence only' candidate has an OOPS in the family with a knocked up 16 year old daughter which shows all too clearly the failure of her way of doing things, but she, her party and Obama all say her family is 'off-limits' to discussion. What they mean is 'off limits to criticism'. So they can parade their family on stage and in front of cameras to be flashed around the world - but, "uh uh uh, you can only say GOOD things about them".
You don't want bad things said about their family in public/in blogs? Get them off the stage. Sheesh.
Yep, plenty of irony and hypocrisy and special treatment to go around.
soooo. because Obama put HIS children on the stage THEY are open game?
I don't think so...but then I ain't oh so clever as some people are...
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soooo. because Obama put HIS children on the stage THEY are open game?
I don't think so...but then I ain't oh so clever as some people are...
Yep. I just think there will be less to talk about. What's more juicy than a VP candidate's knocked up 16 year old daughter about to marry in a shot-gun wedding a self-proclaimed 'redneck'?
Obama's kids are much less interesting.
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Yep. I just think there will be less to talk about. What's more juicy than a VP candidate's knocked up 16 year old daughter about to marry in a shot-gun wedding a self-proclaimed 'redneck'?
Obama's kids are much less interesting.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
well if it wasn't this, some other garbage would be spread....ya'll go ahead and focus on sex (that is one things that both parties can do so well) meantime, the country has REAL issues that need addressing. I guess us stupid people will have to do as we always do..muddle along running the world while the 'elitists' sit around leering at teenagers and talking a big game about how THEY would fix everything if only....
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
well if it wasn't this, some other garbage would be spread....ya'll go ahead and focus on sex (that is one things that both parties can do so well) meantime, the country has REAL issues that need addressing. I guess us stupid people will have to do as we always do..muddle along running the world while the 'elitists' sit around leering at teenagers and talking a big game about how THEY would fix everything if only...
And there you go. See? You say this and my Obama supporter friends say, "See? The conservatives didn't even discuss the economy. They chose a VP to keep the religious fundamentalists/anti-abortion/NRA crowd happy. They don't care about the economy." [shrug]
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ok show me where anyone is discussing the economy? all anyone wants to do is talk about sex. and kids...you put sex and teenagers together and people can't get enough. Sickening.
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Yep. I just think there will be less to talk about. What's more juicy than a VP candidate's knocked up 16 year old daughter about to marry in a shot-gun wedding a self-proclaimed 'redneck'?
Obama's kids are much less interesting.
and you are the one talking about how juicy it is to talk about a couple of teenagers having sex.
*shrug*
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and you are the one talking about how juicy it is to talk about a couple of teenagers having sex.
*shrug*
I said the media would find such a story juicy to tell. Talk to Madison Avenue. Sex sells.
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Yep. I just think there will be less to talk about. What's more juicy than a VP candidate's knocked up 16 year old daughter about to marry in a shot-gun wedding a self-proclaimed 'redneck'?
Obama's kids are much less interesting.
this is the complete text of your post. Where do you mention the media?
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In Australia it is actually compulsory to vote. That goes for voting at all levels, from Federal elections where we vote for who governs the country, through state elections, right down to local municipal elections. If you don't present at the polling place on election day and have your name ticked off the electoral role, you are sent a please explain notice. If you don't have a good excuse for not voting, you are fined.
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In Australia it is actually compulsory to vote. That goes for voting at all levels, from Federal elections where we vote for who governs the country, through state elections, right down to local municipal elections. If you don't present at the polling place on election day and have your name ticked off the electoral role, you are sent a please explain notice. If you don't have a good excuse for not voting, you are fined.
I have heard someone refer to a 'conscience' vote? what is that?
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wikipedia is my friend!
this give details ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_vote
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wikipedia is my friend!
this give details ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_vote
Yep, that's pretty much what I understand a conscience vote to be. In Australia, if I'm a Member of Parliament and part of my party's philosophy is to vote in a particular way on a certain issue (say gay marriage, for example), but I don't agree with them on that issue, when it comes time to vote, I can make a conscience vote and "cross the floor," meaning I literally walk across the floor of the parliamentary chamber and sit on the opposition benches, to vote with them for that one particular piece of legislation. I return to my own side of the chamber, after the voting for that particular matter is complete. In Australia, conscience votes are allowed for some legislation and not for others.
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this is the complete text of your post. Where do you mention the media?
And here's the rest of my post:
You don't want bad things said about their family in public/in blogs? Get them off the stage. Sheesh.
We're drifting off topic here.
Americans - since Australians don't have a choice ;D - women especially - get out and VOTE. It was very tough to get the vote for women, and then and even now, some men believe women vote 'emotionally'. Some men claimed we voted for Clinton because "he was good looking" and that we'll vote for a woman - ANY woman - simply because she is one.
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And here's the rest of my post:
no. I posted your ENTIRE post....that comment was another post entirely.
the post I referenced is HERE:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22495.msg403663.html#msg403663 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22495.msg403663.html#msg403663)
and the partial post you are referencing is HERE:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22495.msg403661.html#msg403661 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22495.msg403661.html#msg403661)
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no. I posted your ENTIRE post....that comment was another post entirely.
the post I referenced is HERE:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22495.msg403663.html#msg403663 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22495.msg403663.html#msg403663)
and the partial post you are referencing is HERE:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22495.msg403661.html#msg403661 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22495.msg403661.html#msg403661)
OK, but what I printed was the post I was referring to when I mentioned the media.
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Isn't healthy political debate amongst friends, in a free and open, egalitarian society, a WONDERFUL thing! :D
And though most of what you're talking about is a mystery to little ol' Aussie, me, it is still wonderful to think we can engage in such debate, when, in so very many oppressed parts of the world, one could be imprisoned, or even lose one's life, for expressing one's beliefs. :'(
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I'm amazed at how some people won't vote.
I vote in each election, even if it's a small town mayoral one, or presidential.
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the barriers to voting in the US are not so high that non felon adults 18 or older can not vote. if people chose not to vote, then that is entirely their choice and should be respected and not chastised, or criticized.
I entirely prefer our system in the US of non compulsory voting, lets remember that in the Soviet Union they had voting participation rates of 99%, so massive voting is not necessarily a sign of a healthy society.
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the barriers to voting in the US are not so high that non felon adults 18 or older can not vote. if people chose not to vote, then that is entirely their choice and should be respected and not chastised, or criticized.
I entirely prefer our system in the US of non compulsory voting, lets remember that in the Soviet Union they had voting participation rates of 99%, so massive voting is not necessarily a sign of a healthy society.
I believe it should be chastized at least. It is a duty to vote. This is a country supposedly run by the people. But if its own people choose not to vote...what kind of message is that sending? I won't criticize - unless of course, people complain about the government but they didn't bother to vote. ;D
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Thanks for posting the info about the early suffragists, Del. And thanks Kerry for the info about compulsory voting in Australia - that's an interesting idea to contemplate. I kinda think the answer should be somewhere in between - I think voter turnout here is abysmal, but it would be better if people actually felt enfranchised - meaning that they felt it actually mattered...I think the indifferent Americans would just pull random levers instead of paying a fine.
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I believe it should be chastized at least. It is a duty to vote. This is a country supposedly run by the people. But if its own people choose not to vote...what kind of message is that sending? I won't criticize - unless of course, people complain about the government but they didn't bother to vote. ;D
it is most definitely not a duty in a democratic society to vote. voting is an option which may or may not be exercised by the citizen.
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Voting is a right.
If you vote, you can complain when your candidate doesn't win or when things go wrong. Or you can work harder to try to change things the next time. If you stay home on election days, you should keep your mouth shut and take what you get. Or change your ways the next time.
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it is most definitely not a duty in a democratic society to vote. voting is an option which may or may not be exercised by the citizen.
I consider it a civic duty, like jury duty or obeying the laws even though no one is there to enforce them. As Americans in a republic, we participate in the running of things so our society can work. We default on those duties, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
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Voting is a right.
If you vote, you can complain when your candidate doesn't win or when things go wrong. Or you can work harder to try to change things the next time. If you stay home on election days, you should keep your mouth shut and take what you get. Or change your ways the next time.
Yes.
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Voting is a right.
If you vote, you can complain when your candidate doesn't win or when things go wrong. Or you can work harder to try to change things the next time. If you stay home on election days, you should keep your mouth shut and take what you get. Or change your ways the next time.
That's my theory too Shasta!
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If you stay home on election days, you should keep your mouth shut and take what you get.
;D
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Voting is a right.
If you vote, you can complain when your candidate doesn't win or when things go wrong. Or you can work harder to try to change things the next time. If you stay home on election days, you should keep your mouth shut and take what you get. Or change your ways the next time.
I don't know Shasta, it is hard to think about abridging someone's freedom of speech because they voluntarily chose to not exercise their voting rights. when you really look at the process of electioneering, if a concerned citizen really wants to be a part of changing gov policies by influencing who the elected officials are, then they should be involved in the process long before the ballots are actually cast. But, most people don't have the time or resources to do that on a continuous basis. and most people don't become politically activated until one of their "interests" are threatened. I completely understand and sympathise with those who simply don't care to vote, and I am usually interested in their opinions.
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I don't know Shasta, it is hard to think about abridging someone's freedom of speech because they voluntarily chose to not exercise their voting rights. when you really look at the process of electioneering, if a concerned citizen really wants to be a part of changing gov policies by influencing who the elected officials are, then they should be involved in the process long before the ballots are actually cast. But, most people don't have the time or resources to do that on a continuous basis. and most people don't become politically activated until one of their "interests" are threatened. I completely understand and sympathise with those who simply don't care to vote, and I am usually interested in their opinions.
Well, you're a good man, brokeplex. I'm not as willing to listen to complaints as you. It's good that we have people like you.
I'm too "put on your big girl panties" and get on with your life sometimes. ;) Occasionally, I need to be reminded of that myself.
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:) if only most people were as conscientious about understanding the issues of the day as you and other Bettermostians are! sigh!
but, the reality is most people are more concerned about whether there is enough beer in the fridge to last the weekend or whether their kids grades are good enough to get into a good school, etc. I can't fault people for concerning themselves with the mundane, it is what they can control, and most people feel that politics is like a bad opera, they just want the curtain to fall so they can go home and open one of those cold ones. :laugh:
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:) if only most people were as conscientious about understanding the issues of the day as you and other Bettermostians are! sigh!
but, the reality is most people are more concerned about whether there is enough beer in the fridge to last the weekend or whether their kids grades are good enough to get into a good school, etc. I can't fault people for concerning themselves with the mundane, it is what they can control, and most people feel that politics is like a bad opera, they just want the curtain to fall so they can go home and open one of those cold ones. :laugh:
;D :laugh: :laugh: