BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Our BetterMost Community => Chez Tremblay => Topic started by: newyearsday on June 09, 2006, 10:18:14 am
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Hey y'all,
This morning on the subway as I lifted my eyes slowly and reminded myself of Alma's sad, far-off look--the one she has when Ennis leaves for another trip without saying goodbye--a new thought struck me. There is a system of assessment and self-understanding called Neuro Linguistic Programming, or NLP for short. It's complex and includes a lot about our ways of filtering information and learning (some people are visual learners vs. auditory learners, for example). But one of the neat things about it is that it claims we can gleen information about the different types of thought or emotion people are experiencing according to where their eyes drift as they are thinking/feeling.
So, I wondered, if anyone around here is an NLP person, they might have some insight into what's going on inside Alma as her eyes shift from center-down to center-straight ahead/long focus. I mean, I think we can tell a LOT from just the look in her eye, but this is a slightly new angle on that scene.
Is Juan around? Maybe he's heard of this. I'll post it on the main section too in case others know something. I think Jack might have a tendency to look sideways but I'm not sure.
Just glad to have something new to contribute! :) :)
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Hi Jenny, you just told everything I know about NLP, but I have thought about this too, with respect to Ennis. There are two times I've notice that he turns his head very much to the right, and looks off into the distance, clearly thinking of Jack - once with Timmy laying asphalt, and the other when he is talking to Alma Jr. about her upcoming wedding. Can anyone think of more examples of this kind of thing?
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I have been on the recieving end of some NLP techniques, with great benefit, I might add, but not enough to comment about any of this. It's fascinating stuff really.
JUANNNNNNN! Where are you? Can you help?
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Great examples Elle. I also thought of how Ennis looks clearly to the left when he's in the phone booth.
A new thing to look for and track--yay!
Well, I just found this link after googling "NLP eye movement meanings"
http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Misc_pages/Eye_accessing.htm (http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Misc_pages/Eye_accessing.htm)
it talks about how looking down and left is about accessing something emotional, and looking up and left is accessing something visual like a memory.
So, is Alma looking more to the left or just straight down and then up? That would be important info. I think it's a little to the left. If so, then she might be feeling something first and then remembering a visual from the past? The way things used to be? I don't know, maybe that's too much conjecture.
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Great examples Elle. I also thought of how Ennis looks clearly to the left when he's in the phone booth.
A new thing to look for and track--yay!
Well, I just found this link after googling "NLP eye movement meanings"
http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Misc_pages/Eye_accessing.htm (http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Misc_pages/Eye_accessing.htm)
it talks about how looking down and left is about accessing something emotional, and looking up and left is accessing something visual like a memory.
So, is Alma looking more to the left or just straight down and then up? That would be important info. I think it's a little to the left. If so, then she might be feeling something first and then remembering a visual from the past? The way things used to be? I don't know, maybe that's too much conjecture.
This is interesting but remember that in this case it may not be accurate because Alma is not real, it's Michelle acting. I met someone a long time ago who told me something about NLP (i think it was NLP) but I didn't understand it. But it's interesting though.
UPDATE
I just remembered that it was one of the topics in one of my class at school. It didn't ring a bell before because I knew the term in Spanish. In fact I have a few books about it. I'll look them up later.
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When Alma is looking at Jack's second postcard, she looks really really cross eyed!! Is that part of NLP?
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Hey all,
Sorry Jenny, it wasn't something that I learned about in school or elsewhere. It sounded interesting so I Googled it, there's a lot of info on the web about it. Apparently it's a bit controversial because it has its roots in New Age philosophy, so there's been some challenges as to whether it's very scientific or not.
When I first saw the thread, I thought it might have to do with this other form of therapy called Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) that involves different therapy approaches and eye movement in a way that almost sounds like hypnosis. A former supervisor of mine who's a therapist was a practitioner and found it to be very useful with trauma survivors. So you don't find out about people through their eyes, but the eyes are part of the treatment.
The idea of how eye movement corresponds to mood state is interesting. I think there is something that describes that but I can't think of what it is. If anything comes to mind I'll let you know.
Juan
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This is interesting but remember that in this case it may not be accurate because Alma is not real, it's Michelle acting. I met someone a long time ago who told me something about NLP (i think it was NLP) but I didn't understand it. But it's interesting though.
UPDATE
I just remembered that it was one of the topics in one of my class at school. It didn't ring a bell before because I knew the term in Spanish. In fact I have a few books about it. I'll look them up later.
Hi Opinionista (sorry it's been so long that I don't remember your first name!)
I thought about this too, but I think it's still possible that it works, b/c these actors are embodying their characters, doing movements and things that may not be "of" the actors' normal reperatoire of behavior. I like to think that when they are in character they are doing things mentally and physically that should be considered part of that character and not the actor playing him or her.
Other thoughts on this?
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Hi Opinionista (sorry it's been so long that I don't remember your first name!)
I thought about this too, but I think it's still possible that it works, b/c these actors are embodying their characters, doing movements and things that may not be "of" the actors' normal reperatoire of behavior. I like to think that when they are in character they are doing things mentally and physically that should be considered part of that character and not the actor playing him or her.
Other thoughts on this?
Hey Jenny,
My name's Natali. Don't pay much attention to me. I really don't know much about NLP and much less about acting! It was just a thought. You could be right, it's possible that actors embody the characters they play, especially the ones that are good at it.
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I have thought about this too, with respect to Ennis. There are two times I've notice that he turns his head very much to the right, and looks off into the distance, clearly thinking of Jack - once with Timmy laying asphalt, and the other when he is talking to Alma Jr. about her upcoming wedding. Can anyone think of more examples of this kind of thing?
w
I've never heard the term NLP before, though I have heard of the different kinds of learning and also the idea that people look to the left for one kind of thought and to the right for another (can't remember any more specifics). I really think there's something to it (I say as I look off to the left).
But I have definitely noticed what Clarissa and Jenny mentioned about Ennis -- he looks off to the side when thinking about Jack, usually to the right, but to the left in the phone booth. The common denominator seems less about which direction than the fact that he's looking outside, toward nature, into the distance. But another one I put in this category (that deviates from that rule) is when he's sitting on the bed with Alma. Just when she says "you don't want it to be so lonely, do you?" and the wind howls outside, he looks slightly to the right and freezes for a moment with a sad expression, as if thinking, "No, I sure as hell wish it weren't."