BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum

Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Brokeback Mountain Open Forum => Topic started by: Penthesilea on September 29, 2008, 10:30:54 am

Title: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Penthesilea on September 29, 2008, 10:30:54 am

Edit to add: I'll be on vacation next week, so the next TOTW will be in two weeks


Hi BetterMostians,

dipping my toes into another symbolism topic this week.

In some scenes, various kinds of food plays a prominent role in the movie. The fact that Ennis orders soup for Jack is a clear and early sign of Ennis's affection towards Jack.

Then the „shoot a sheep vs. stick to beans“ discussion, which is symbolic for their relationship and their different approaches to life.

Later Ennis shows a poignant nostalgia when he brings beans to one of their fishing trips, saying he's gonna fix them just the way he used to.


Ennis uses food to please Jack at least three times: when he orders soup  from the Basque, when he shoots an elk because Jack doesn't want to stick to beans and in the above mentioned scene.
He is nurturing Jack. In contrast, he expects Alma to do the nurturing in their marriage („Bring some round steak“, „Nodody 's eating unless you're serving it“).


But beyond those more obvious examples, there are other important scenes with food involved. Come to think of it, there's pretty much food throughout the whole movie, which brings me to the question, if there is one big, overall symbolic meaning to all food mentioned/shown? Perhaps the nurturing aspect as a manifestation of the relationships between the various characters in the movie.

We've also previously talked about the (wonder) bread and it's different stages of being wrapped/unwrapped as a symbol for Ennis secret/not any longer secret sexuality.


Some more examples of food prominently involved into scenes:


Any ideas on the mentioned scenes (or others)? What comes to your mind thinking BBM and food?




(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m47/Penthesilea06/TOTW/collage10.jpg)
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: chowhound on September 29, 2008, 03:40:58 pm
Food, of course, is often accompanied by drink and one contrast between the two Thanksgiving scenes is not in food - turkey in both cases, even if the turkey is carved by different instruments in the two households - but in what is drunk. It is no doubt one of the indicators of Jack's increasing wealth that his Thanksgiving dinner is accompanied by white wine served in elegant crystal whereas at the  Monroe household it's milk for all served out of sturdy glass tumblers.

White wine, of course, does reappear at the very end  when Ennis finds a bottle in the fridge to propose a toast to his daughter's upcoming marriage but I'm not sure there's much of a connection here but maybe somebody can forge one.

However, you probably want people to focus on food rather than drink, so I'll leave it there.

One brief note on food and money before I do. "Round" is one of the cheaper cuts of beef and, as it's quite tough, is better cooked as a stew rather than a steak. That Ennis specifies "round" signals to me that this is a family that has to look after every penny.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Katie77 on September 29, 2008, 09:49:02 pm
I think you are right in that the use of the food was in some ways showing the nurturing.

In the same way as with all the food scenes on Brokeback.....it seems to show how the boys quite comfortably "set up house" together. How they just took it in their stride to cook and feed each other.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: mariez on September 29, 2008, 10:16:05 pm
Yes, I also agree that food = nurturing and comfort.  Now that I think of it, the only time we see Jack and Ennis truly enjoying food or having a real appetite is when they're together.   Even at their respective Thanksgiving dinners (traditionally a day centered around eating a huge meal) we don't really see them eating or taking any pleasure from the food before them.  But at other times, we do see Ennis listlessly pushing applie pie around his plate and, of course, politely declining Mrs. Twist's offer of the cherry cake.   :'(

Marie
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on September 29, 2008, 10:24:16 pm
That is a good point, marie. And it makes sense. On a primal level, don't we look to our mate to replace that wonderful perfect union of mother and child that is the first one we ever knew?

Here's Jack and Ennis round the campfire.

(http://www.divshare.com/img/626712-789.jpg)
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on September 29, 2008, 10:26:52 pm
Quote from: Katie77 on September 29, 2008, 09:49:02 pm
I think you are right in that the use of the food was in some ways showing the nurturing.

In the same way as with all the food scenes on Brokeback.....it seems to show how the boys quite comfortably "set up house" together. How they just took it in their stride to cook and feed each other.
Sue. you are so right. First Ennis, and then Jack served as the camp "tender", applying tender loving care to the hardworking herder. How wonderful it was for them to play house up on Brokeback!!

Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Gabreya on September 30, 2008, 12:15:09 am
Yummy. :)
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: optom3 on September 30, 2008, 10:52:18 am
I think food is used as an analogy to compare the differents relationships. Food between Jack and Ennis is seen as a relaxed and even loving thing.Ennis ordering soup, even adding salt and pepper to the food he is cooking.He takes such care of everything he prepares for Jack. down to the tiniest details, eg the salt and pepper.
In contrast mealtimes wth their respective families are seen as stressful and fraught. It is I thnk, a unversal fact, that when we love someone, we go to great lengths to provide the best meals we can.It is a caring action and also in many cases a time consuming one.We tackle it however with no thought to that element, only to the joy we are going to bring to our partner.Taste is such a sensual thing.How many of us associate a particular meal with a time of great joy and love? It can be a gastronomic feast or as in my case a simple baguette and pate.Fod for me is inexricably linked with love.

At no time that I can recall in the film do either Jack or Ennis even help with food preparation, never mind cook a meal, with their families.As with all things in the S.S and the film, the devil is in the detail.

In the S.S Ennis dreams of a "can of beans with the spoon handle jutting out".At first we see these dreams as solace for Ennis, but are then thrown for a loop when told" the spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron."

It seems to me that the only true and unfettered by societies dictates times for the boys, are up on BBM. Simple meals lovingly prepared by the campfire.Washed down with a drink or two, and accompanied by chat, laughter and song. The true inner peace and contentment of these time is almost tangible.Yet of course for us the viewer, we know that even these glorious days of loves first young bloom are being slowly frozen, and starting to wilt, under the unseen watching eye of Aguirre.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Gabreya on October 01, 2008, 11:17:54 pm
Quote from: optom3 on September 30, 2008, 10:52:18 am
I think food is used as an analogy to compare the differents relationships. Food between Jack and Ennis is seen as a relaxed and even loving thing.Ennis ordering soup, even adding salt and pepper to the food he is cooking.He takes such care of everything he prepares for Jack. down to the tiniest details, eg the salt and pepper.
In contrast mealtimes wth their respective families are seen as stressful and fraught. It is I thnk, a unversal fact, that when we love someone, we go to great lengths to provide the best meals we can.It is a caring action and also in many cases a time consuming one.We tackle it however with no thought to that element, only to the joy we are going to bring to our partner.Taste is such a sensual thing.How many of us associate a particular meal with a time of great joy and love? It can be a gastronomic feast or as in my case a simple baguette and pate.Fod for me is inexricably linked with love.

At no time that I can recall in the film do either Jack or Ennis even help with food preparation, never mind cook a meal, with their families.As with all things in the S.S and the film, the devil is in the detail.

In the S.S Ennis dreams of a "can of beans with the spoon handle jutting out".At first we see these dreams as solace for Ennis, but are then thrown for a loop when told" the spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron."

It seems to me that the only true and unfettered by societies dictates times for the boys, are up on BBM. Simple meals lovingly prepared by the campfire.Washed down with a drink or two, and accompanied by chat, laughter and song. The true inner peace and contentment of these time is almost tangible.Yet of course for us the viewer, we know that even these glorious days of loves first young bloom are being slowly frozen, and starting to wilt, under the unseen watching eye of Aguirre.

Ain't that the truth, optom. You summed it up nicely! Food between the two main characters appears very relaxed and sharing when it comes to the growing affection between them. :)
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on October 02, 2008, 09:32:02 am
I agree with all you say, Fiona and Gab. However, I need to point out that both Jack and Ennis pitched in on food preparation. As Lureen poured the gravy over the turkey, Jack brought the tray in to the table and prepared to carve before L.D. took the knife away from him. Jack also knew that his wife spent three hours preparing the dinner.

Although late in the movie, Ennis helped by bringing in plates from the table. I always thought it was funny that he helped out while the rest of the family watched tv and smoked a cigar!!
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: optom3 on October 02, 2008, 09:45:57 am
Quote from: Front-Ranger on October 02, 2008, 09:32:02 am
I agree with all you say, Fiona and Gab. However, I need to point out that both Jack and Ennis pitched in on food preparation. As Lureen poured the gravy over the turkey, Jack brought the tray in to the table and prepared to carve before L.D. took the knife away from him. Jack also knew that his wife spent three hours preparing the dinner.

Although late in the movie, Ennis helped by bringing in plates from the table. I always thought it was funny that he helped out while the rest of the family watched tv and smoked a cigar!!


I agree 100% with what you say.Both Jack and Ennis did contribute in smaller ways towards the family meals.
It always seemed more of a duty/chore though.Even the fact that Jack passed comment on how long the dinner had taken to prepare, seemmed more aimed at Newsome than anything else.
The food prep. between the boys seems so more loving, almost a bonding round the campfire type thing. I feel a closeness there, that just do not get with the family meals. Quite the reverse,I sit white knuckled waiting for the explosion.I even felt that on firts viewing, there was a palpable underlying tension.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on October 03, 2008, 12:05:39 pm
Somebody mentioned salt and pepper. I love the use of salt shakers in the movie so much that I made Ennis' salt shaker my chat avatar! When Jack rides up one morning, Ennis is just finishing up his breakfast, salting the eggs he's cooking in the cast iron pan. He has to check if any salt is coming out by shaking it onto his hand (as I recall, he's wearing a glove).

Another time, Alma is cooking in her kitchen, when the pining Ennis comes in after work. Alma Jr. is at her toy stove pretending to cook. You can see the salt and pepper shakers on the counter, in the gap between Alma's body and her arm where she's leaning on the counter. The two shakers, in addition to the many other paired things in the kitchen, as well as the many handles and the closed-up-tight containers, speak mutely of Ennis' longing for his natural partner.

The salt shaker in the movie is an example of the synergy with which Ang Lee applied the words of Annie Proulx. In the story, Ennis remembers Jack's "sweet salty stink" but there's no way to translate this to the screen, so Ang brings salt into different places. Ennis knows the salty words to The Strawberry Roan, and, because of his nosebleed, knows the salty taste of blood.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Penthesilea on October 03, 2008, 12:53:25 pm
Quote from: Front-Ranger on October 03, 2008, 12:05:39 pm
The salt shaker in the movie is an example of the synergy with which Ang Lee applied the words of Annie Proulx. In the story, Ennis remembers Jack's "sweet salty stink" but there's no way to translate this to the screen, so Ang brings salt into different places. Ennis knows the salty words to The Strawberry Roan, and, because of his nosebleed, knows the salty taste of blood.

Love this synergy observation FRiend! :)

But on the blood: salty? Blood has a ferreous taste to it (which resonates with the tire iron), but I don't think salty.
Tears are salty, and our boys sure get to know the taste or them :(
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 03, 2008, 01:20:09 pm
But there's also the fact that about 80 percent of the human body is basically salt water.

I've seen this a number of places, but the source I most recently checked is at http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-12/912791455.Mb.r.html
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Gabreya on October 04, 2008, 11:57:12 pm
Yes. Without salt, basically, foods can be really bland. I love your observation, Front-Ranger.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: retropian on October 07, 2008, 10:01:04 pm
Interesting topic. I haven't thought of it before. I think beans symbolize social conformity. Jack rebels against that conformity in a way, Ennis wants nothing more that to conform. We find Jack gets rapidly sick of beans, while Ennis clearly enjoys them. Perhaps the elk scene shows how Jack is gradually nudging Ennis into loosening his need to conform. Perhaps going outside the 'norm' and shooting an elk (which was probably illegal, hunting season is in the fall) symbolizes Ennis's growing willingness to push his boundaries, which leads to the 1st tent scene.

Also, regarding drink, I get a kick out of connecting Aguirre's "stemming the Rose"  comment and the later "sometimes I miss you so much" scene. Ennis is drinking from a long necked(phallic) whiskey bottle with an "Old Rose" label. I think that was a piece of sly humor from the film makers.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on October 11, 2008, 11:19:12 am
Here is a synopsis of the baked beans and soup thread from Remarkable Threads of IMDB Rewound, a child board here on the Open Forum, brought to us by TOop/Bruce:

by michaelback: Did anyone notice at the beginning of the film when Jack said he didn't want beans anymore? Ennis didn't say anything, but knew that the other alternative (soup) was hard to deliver. In any case he ordered the soup especially for Jack and in the end they both couldn't have the soup as the bear encounter destroyed everything but the beans - so they had to make do with what they had.

I think this shows a couple of things. It firstly signifies Ennis developing feelings for Jack in addition to accomodating his desires. I think this along with Ennis saying he hadn't had the opportunity to sin yet, shows he was trying to instigate some kind of deeper relationship subconsciously.

The other aspect is that the soup and beans are a metaphor for their relationship. They had to make do with beans even though they didn't really like them
(Their unfulfilled family life). Jack wanted the alternative (a life together), but Ennis couldn't provide it for him even though he really wanted to (soup destroyed).

In the end, they do kill a stag (I think that's what it was), but I think the baked beans and soup message is still the same.

Does anyone agree?

by lvwmprovost: Yet another layer is peeled away ...

Never thought of this metaphor, but yep, it's there. There is so much genius in this film that I am still in awe, two months after having first seen it!


by dietcokie: I really like your metaphorical discussion on the beans
and soup. I will say the most successful ideas are the
ones that are not directly planned but have been more
or less thought of continously throught out a film.
When you think a certain way it will show.
Deliberate is clever - unplanned is genius.

"If ya can't fix it Jack, ya gotta stand it" - Ennis Del Mar

by BannerHill: Very interesting line of thought.

Additionaly, when Ennis says "I'll stick with beans" and Jack says "Well I won't", a lot is being foreshadowed. Ennis is saying "I'll stick with my lot in life" and Jack is saying "Well not me. I am going to go on to bigger and better things. I am not going to live small"

See what I mean?

by filmlooks: I just wanted to point out that Ennis and Jack had not yet 'consumed' their relationship when Ennis gives in the grocery list asking for soup. Initially I thought the asking-for-soup-scene came about after they slept together, but I was wrong. I believe this demonstrates that Ennis is trying to befriend and accomodate his new friend Jack.

by RobertPlant:   
They had to make do with beans even though they didn't really like them
(Their unfulfilled family life). Jack wanted the alternative (a life together), but .......

Yes...
Ennis: I'll stick with beans
Jack: I won't.

by kenpadgett26:   
   
"I'll stick with beans."
"I won't."
This exchange sums up who these men are perfectly.

Let be. Let be.

by dietcokie: 
re: "I'll stick with beans."
"I won't."
"This exchange sums up who these men are perfectly. "

I agree - wonderful forehsadowing - but it also set
the stage nicely for Jake's character. Plus when
they kill an elk (?) this is their sacrifice when
then were unable to get the "soup" because the bear
(which is implies deadly danger) takes that away.
Elk is their lives, their wives and children.
Emotional blood.

I love Ang and Annie - GENIUS!!

and
"There ain't no reins on this one"<-- That line gets me - its
so passionate sounding yet so matter of fact.

by Front-Ranger: The original story didn't talk about eating beans on Brokeback Mountain, but at the end when Ennis dreams about his friend, he also sees a luridly-colored can of beans with a spoon sticking out of it. Even in his dreams he can't come to terms with his freind's death by tire iron so he dreams about the spoon instead. I think the spoon, shepherd's crook, hanger, and tire iron are all related. Perhaps they signal to us that that which "hooks" us on life can also be the cause of our death. Also, that Brokeback Mountain and the experience Ennis had there, "hooked him in" for life. He couldn't get away from it ("There ain't no reins on this one").


lil_toons: I'm not sure if this is pertinent to the metaphor because I saw BBM once and the scene I'm about to describe may or may not also have some connection to the Beans and Soup Metaphor. But, one scene I remember, which Ennis drops off the children to Alma at the store with the explaination that he's needed immediately at work but really intends to go meet Jack. After he leaves store, a shelf full of cans collapses onto the floor, when either Alma leans against it or the kid knocks it over. Not sure what kinds of cans they were.

BannerHill: big jars of peanuts

northernlad: This is the type of stuff that makes me love coming here. I hadn't really considered the beans and the soup. I also like what is said here about Ennis saying he'll stick with the beans, but Jack says that he won't. It's so true about their characters.

pipedream: Sticking with the beans, yeah that's Ennis ("If ya can't fix it Jack, ya gotta stand it"); Funnily he seemed very keen to fix the things he thought could actually be fixed, like the tent that Jack hadn't properly set up. Jack didn't care about it, yet Ennis had to fix it.
That's sort of revealing, too, isn't it? I think Jack had a better feeling for what was really important to him and set different priorities. He wanted Ennis and tried to persuade him again and again to establish a life togehter. Yet this was so out of the question for Ennis, he just couldn't.
Only in the end when he discovered the shirts in Jack's room he realized what a fundamental mistake he had made. Too sad.


taj_e: They settled with an elk (wild game) at the end
The fact that Ennis was willing to go for soup was one of the indication of Ennis nurturing instinct. I've initially thought that Ennis might have develop strong feeling (love) a day before he set up the tent (in excitement). However Ennis was seen and heard humming away prior to the bear incident. He might have the 'wild idea' of the possibility of having a 'relationship' with Jack

Front-Ranger:

The story does refer to beans later when Ennis says to Alma that Jack is not the restaurant type. And at the very end Ennis has a dream about Jack in which beans appear (I talk about that earlier in this thread). So, the question inevitably becomes Why did McMurtry/Ossana expand the role of beans in the story? I don't know the answer but I'll hazard a guess. I think it was actually Ang Lee who added the beans reference, and it was because beans are an Oriental symbol of male fertility. Other thoughts?
   
Here is the first reference to "beans" in the short story:

"Well, I'm goin a warsh everthing I can reach," he said, pulling off his boots and jeans (no drawers, no socks, Jack noticed), slopping the green washcloth around until the fire spat.

They had a high-time supper by the fire, a can of ****beans**** each, fried potatoes and a quart of whiskey on shares, sat with their backs against a log, boot soles and copper jeans rivets hot, swapping the bottle while the lavender sky emptied of color and the chill air drained down, drinking, smoking cigarettes, getting up every now and then to piss, firelight throwing a sparkle in the arched stream, tossing sticks on the fire to keep the talk going, talking horses and rodeo, roughstock events, wrecks and injuries sustained, the submarine Thresher lost two months earlier with all hands and how it must have been in the last doomed minutes, dogs each had owned and known, the draft, Jack's home ranch where his father and mother held on, Ennis's family place folded years ago after his folks died, the older brother in Signal and a married sister in Casper. "

by riverviewantique: When the dvd came out they had an interview with Dianna and larry. they said they had to create a lot of things as Annie's story was a short one. Also when Ennis says he will switch with Jack, he is also showing how he is glad to help jack as he now cares for him. But he can never move in with Jack as a result of his childhood vision of the Rich guy getting murdered. He was always scared something would happen to Jack of himself.

Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on October 11, 2008, 03:57:58 pm
Ennis making breakfast for Jack...he timed it so the breakfast was done just as Jack rode up.

(http://www.divshare.com/img/midsize/980570-f70.jpg) (http://www.divshare.com/download/980570-f70)

A glove makes an excellent hot pad so you can handle hot iron pan handles. Notice how often we see Jack or Ennis with just one glove on? Oh, that's a different thread!
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on October 12, 2008, 07:02:01 pm
Meat of all kinds appears in the story and movie...fish, Thanksgiving turkeys, elk, beef, even rabbit. Jack compares Lureen to a rabbit trying to hide in a snakehole with a coyote on its tail! Talk about the rat race/food chain!! I was thinking about the campfire scene looking like a medieval or Renaissance still life, one of those that often has a dead hare in the middle of it, and I ended up perusing this interesting site about rabbits and hares:

http://www.moonshinestud.com/rabbitsandbunnies.htm (http://www.moonshinestud.com/rabbitsandbunnies.htm)

One other aside: Chicken in Wyoming is called Wyoming vegetarian food!
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on May 02, 2009, 11:32:32 am
Check out the appearance of Wonder bread in this hilarious translation of Joe Cocker's performance at Woodstock!!

http://www.elwp.com/Joe%20Cocker.html (http://www.elwp.com/Joe%20Cocker.html)

Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on May 07, 2009, 01:26:02 pm
Musing on the topic of food and eating in the movie today...It's interesting that Jack told Ennis "Friend, that's the most you've said in two weeks." And later, Jack's son Bobby complained that "I'm going to be eating this food for two weeks" at Thanksgiving dinner. I've often wondered why the screenwriters had Bobby saying that, and why he was made to eat ambrosia. He was too old to be teething. The only conclusion I can think of was that he was hungry and whining while his mama took three hours to cook dinner, so was given the ambrosia to tide him over. But, Lureen told Bobby to "eat your dinner" when she caught him watching football. So, clearly Bobbie was eating the ambrosia instead of turkey. Maybe he was a picky eater. He seemed to be high maintenance, as he needed a tutor, and seemed to have a classic only child personality. Probably took after Jack in that way. And Mrs. Twist was depicted in the story as coring apples with a sharp serrated instrument. There must be a meaning hidden in here somewhere!
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: optom3 on May 07, 2009, 02:49:01 pm
It has always intrigued me that one of the more overt signs of Ennis starting to display some feelings about/towards Jack, is when he tries to replace the beans with soup.He has already been told soup is a pain so he is putting himself out for Jack.
The episode continues, with  the best intentions of Ennis being thwarted by a bear. On returning to camp, Jack immediately tries to bathe the wound on Ennis's head, but is pushed away.
It seems there is an ongoing and invisible tug of war. Ennis has maybe recognised within himself, some emotion of which he is wary. It is undoubtedly alien to him, and he seems unwilling, to accept or acknowledge it on anything but his own terms. So his plan to please Jack,with the soup, goes wrong and when Jack then tries to aid him, he is pushed away and we are back with taciturn Ennis.This theme pretty much continues, with Ennis calling most of the shots.
 We seem to have 2 tugs of war ongoing.The one between Ennis and Jack, which is both emotional and physical and the one within the deep recesses of Ennis's mind.Food is universally acknowledged to be nurturing, loving, providing succour and it is interesting that this is the route Ennis chooses as he stumbles around with his new found emotions.Which returns to the way he seasons the food. It seems food, in all its guises is a way Ennis has found to move closer to Jack. It is demonstrated later, when they go from separate drinking cups to passing the bottle and each swigging from it.

I personally have always thought the preparing and serving of food to the one you love, is a very intimate gesture.




Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: LauraGigs on May 08, 2009, 12:05:52 pm
Quote
Food is universally acknowledged to be nurturing, loving, providing succour and it is interesting that this is the route Ennis chooses as he stumbles around with his new found emotions. Which returns to the way he seasons the food. It seems food, in all its guises is a way Ennis has found to move closer to Jack.

Oh yeah — I love the way Ennis is seasoning the food at the beginning of the "commutin 4 hours a day" scene.  You see him shake the salt/pepper into his hand first (to see if it's flowing or how fast it's flowing) and then onto the food.  A big extra touch for a stoic sheepherder!  I wonder if that was in the script, an Ang Lee direction, or Heath Ledger's idea.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on May 08, 2009, 01:11:46 pm
Quote from: LauraGigs on May 08, 2009, 12:05:52 pm
Oh yeah — I love the way Ennis is seasoning the food at the beginning of the "commutin 4 hours a day" scene.  You see him shake the salt/pepper into his hand first (to see if it's flowing or how fast it's flowing) and then onto the food.  A big extra touch for a stoic sheepherder!  I wonder if that was in the script, an Ang Lee direction, or Heath Ledger's idea.

Not in the script, as I recall (at least an early version of it). My guess is that Heath was showing that Ennis was worth his salt!! And notice how he takes his glove off to shake the salt into his hand...that's powerful symbolism. His other hand is gloved as a form of potholder to withstand the heat of the cast iron skillet.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: optom3 on May 08, 2009, 01:41:33 pm
One other food scene I LOVE is when Ennis manages to shoot the deer. Jack is ecstatic like an overgrown kid, Ennis gives that wonderful slightly shy and embarrassed smile of his, as if to say shucks it wasn't nothing. Instead he says, was getting tired of your dumbass missing. That smile gives it all away though, he is pleased to have done something for Jack. Yet again it is food related.
It is odd to me that Ennis uses food simultaneously as a sign of his growing feelings and yet also as a mask.He can always grunt some off the cuff remark as if to say, don't read anything into this.Another internal tug of war he goes through, as if to provide himself with both an entrance and exit, he always has a safety net.

I know this next bit is from the S.S but it is related I think. When the two meet after 4 years, Ennis tells Jack of how he "got gut cramps so bad------thought I ate something bad "
 We see the alley scene in the movie, although we don't get the conversation, Ennis literally is love sick. He admits as much to Jack in the story, when he says,"took me about a year a figure out it was I shouldn't a let you out a my sights. Too late then by a long, long while"
That sentence when I first read the story tore me apart.I knew then there was going to be no happy ending, but  still hoped. Ennis may not have had a long education, but he knew exactly what had made him sick in the alley. It is also telling that he must have thought of it on and off for a year, trying to work it out.
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: LauraGigs on May 10, 2009, 05:26:35 pm
[from another thread but I think it's appropriate for here]

Quote from: Front-Ranger
I am wondering why AP had Jack eat two bowls of stew, two bottles of beer, four of Ennis's stone biscuits, and a can of peaches one evening early in their Brokeback Mountain adventure...

Obviously Proulx is indicating Jack's ravenous nature and appreciation of what Ennis provides.  But if we "read in" as Brokies tend to do...

The menu to me seems to hint at sexual tension.  Even numbers (pairs) of most everything.  Then the peaches — with their smell, ripeness, fuzz and round cleavage on the outside — connote youth, freshness and sexuality.  Here, they're "canned" = preserved from a while ago, put on hold.  Our boys, at least so far, have put overt sexuality on hold while up away from town.  So the "stew" is especially appropriate.  I pictured the "stone biscuits" as being round (or hard) like stones (didn't know that "stone" referred the grinding method).  It can be thought of as a testicular reference (do you have the stones to do it, or not?)

And of course (to really reach), peaches are a fruit (queer).
Title: Re: TOTW 26/08: Symbolism of food in the movie
Post by: Front-Ranger on June 02, 2009, 09:50:39 pm
Good interpretation, friend!