were Jacks ashes actually buried? Lureen did put up a stone, but did she bury the ashes? Maybe she has the ashes on mantle somewhere?
So he was cremated, like he wanted, and, like I say, half his ashes was interred here, and the rest I sent up to his folks.
By the way, I voted No, and I agree very much with Chrissie as to why. Lureen would have been mortified beyond belief is those ashes had to be dug up, and some explaining had to be done.
I also voted No because Ennis was never a man who needed many material objects in order to survive and live his life (or the semblance of the life that he led, more correctly). Why would he need an urn of ashes to remind him every minute of every day for the rest of that life, of Jack?
The only explaining that needed to be done was to say that "His father won't honor his wishes, so I will."
The shirts and postcard are material objects.
Ooh, that's an interesting statement, David, about Lureen having a grudge against Ennis. That actually raises an entirely different conversation. Wow... We listen to her in the blue parka conversation, and then we hear her at the end, after Jack's death. It's interesting that you think Lureen was clever/smart/perceptive enough to know that Ennis was interfering/begrudging her the idyllic life she was looking for in her dreams. I just really don't believe that Lureen ever picked up on the clues of Jack's other life.
Lureen's veiled hostility towards Ennis during their phone conversation tipped me off, but I could be wrong Mandy. Also she gently chastised Jack for going to Wyoming on one of his "fishing trips". I had a weird feeling about that as well. I think she knew what was going on. But like I said, I could be wrong. :)
David, first I'll say that I voted no, Ennis would not have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes. I find your feeling about Lureen interesting, but I don't agree. I don't think Ennis was her favorite person, especially after she discovered what he meant to Jack, but I don't think she held a grudge against him. If she did hold a grudge, I don't think she would have asked him to go and carry out Jack's wishes. She would have withheld information about Jack's ashes, his final wish, the fact that Brokeback was his favorite place.
I think Laureen would have had her suspicions about Jack. Her comment about Jack keeping his friends names in his head, indicated that maybe Jack had other male friends whom she had not met. I think the fact that Jack had said Brokeback was his favourite place, and then Ennis telling her that he and Jack had worked up there together years ago, probably told Laureen, that this one, Ennis, was obviously the one who Jack felt the closest to.
Jack had told Ennis that their sex life was practically non existent, so obviously that either waned over the years, or there was just no sexual feeling between the two of them. Most wives would get suspicious if their husband was no interested in sex with her, first off she would think of another woman, but if Jack had male friends only, that she had not met, sooner or later the penny would probbly drop, and once Laureen had suspicions that there were other men on the scene, she would be picking up on things a lot easier.
I think the way Laureen described the tyre blow out incident, it was said in a way, like, "I knew one day, something like this would happen"....and the way she recited the incident over the phone, was like a written script that she had worked out to tell people, whether they believed it or not, that was the story, and she was sticking to it.
It was her and her sons right to have half the ashes, so I dont think Ennis would ever have asked for them from her. I think he would have had more respect for her than to ask her that. I dont think he would have asked the Twists, if it had not been for Jacks request, and he seemed to accept OMT saying that Jack would be buried in the family plot. They were Jack's family after all and had that right.
Ennis was not the only one who lost someone, or who was mourning him....the Twists lost a son, Laureen lost a husband, and more importantly, Bobby lost a father.
If anything, the whole situation shows, that although the relationship Ennis and Jack had, was probably the most intimate and loving relationship out of all Jack's other relationships with his family...in the end, Ennis had no say in what happened to his lover, after he was gone.
I wonder if that was a comparison, to what can happen in other gay relationships that we have heard about, when one of them dies, the partner has no legal right to the same things, he would have, if they were legally married.
David, first I'll say that I voted no, Ennis would not have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes. I find your feeling about Lureen interesting, but I don't agree. I don't think Ennis was her favorite person, especially after she discovered what he meant to Jack, but I don't think she held a grudge against him. If she did hold a grudge, I don't think she would have asked him to go and carry out Jack's wishes. She would have withheld information about Jack's ashes, his final wish, the fact that Brokeback was his favorite place.
Brokeplex, in the film and in the short story, I believe Lureen says something to the effect of "half his ashes was interred here, and the rest I sent up to his folks". Why would we question her using the word "interred", which according to Webster means, 'to put into a grave; bury'. What's your premise/theory for us not believing her?
By the way, I voted No, and I agree very much with Chrissie as to why. Lureen would have been mortified beyond belief is those ashes had to be dug up, and some explaining had to be done. I think if Lureen had actually ever met Ennis or spoken to him on the phone, even, before Jack's death, that things might have been different, and she might have been a bit more sympathetic to Ennis's grief. But that wasn't the case.
I also voted No because Ennis was never a man who needed many material objects in order to survive and live his life (or the semblance of the life that he led, more correctly). Why would he need an urn of ashes to remind him every minute of every day for the rest of that life, of Jack?
its the odd usage of the word "interred" that caused a question flag to pop up in my consciousness. I don't believe that is it is a word Lureen would use in her ordinary conversations. I am confident that she knew how to correctly use the word, but I am not confident that she would use "interred" over "buried", unless special conditions applied. I also noticed that she said to Ennis that "we put up a stone", that also triggered some questions in my mind, as a grave marker stone is implied and didn't need to be stated unless special conditions applied. If Lureen buried Jack's ashes in a local cemetery I can see her saying it much more plainly : as in "We buried half of Jack's ashes down here, and sent the rest up to his folks in Lightening Flat". But, she doesn't say that, she qualifies it too much.
Thank you for saying this! Her specific wording always rang strange to me. But being not a native speaker, I always shrugged it off as something probably rooted in her time and location.
I will think some more about it, but what instantly comes to my mind are Ang Lee's words: "... she's lying. Lureen is clearly lying on the phone..." (citing from memory).
Brokeplex, if indeed Jack is dead, then maybe Lureen has went to Brokeback Mountain to place some of his ashes?
Could that possibly be ?
Au revoir,
hugs!